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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 232816 times)

Online hvaces42

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1640 on: September 25, 2016, 02:34:58 PM »
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1641 on: September 25, 2016, 02:50:33 PM »
Maybe it is enough. Maybe not. The best practice is taking dozens of simulated tests and hundreds of simulated sections with timers. And some with no timers just trying to get every question correct.

The thing is improving to the 170's is the hardest part and while someome can get in the 160's with not studying intensely it has no indication they can do the same to get in the 170's. But I'm not saying he can't.


What is he working as now? If it's not an important job I don't see how it can be worth it to work now regardless if he knows he wants law school he should be putting his blood sweat and tears and whatever the cost to get the best score possible. Why go for a 170? Go for a 180. Striving high is a great motivator, and can help a lot.

And remember even with all the practice tests there is nothing like test day. Nerves are something that is hard to practice for. I say next to someone that was getting a 178-180 on all his recent simulated practice tests. He cancelled his score on test day because he set read his watch wrong for how much time he had left and bombed an entire section...

Also how much have you looked into Northwestern scholars who gets them? what GPA/lsat/work experience they have to have?

Yes -- he is competent and should be striving towards the 174-179 mark.
 
Agree 100% that a $5,000 job for 2-3 months is not worth it if one has a chance at $50K/year scholarship,
plus ideally a top T14 law school acceptance.

Yes, we'll need to look into Northwestern scholars. (The first year law school climate has changed due to fewer jobs being offered; they've possibly decreased their first year acceptance rates and scholarships due to lower enrollment overall in recent years.)

The LSAT is the single most important test a lawyer will ever take in his career.

Spend the extra money and go with fish.

+100
Agreed!
It's not the money for Fisch that's the issue. It's worth every penny and then more.
The question is the 4 days/week commute to Manhattan plus the 8hrs/day studying and if leaving job, then not having the regular salary to pay for the monthly 2BR rent. This is a 4 month course that's been condensed into 2 months at the YU location.

It's still worth it on paper, however we wanted to know if Fisch is it that much better than religiously taking www.7sage.com LSAT courses? 
(Can Fisch get him from mid 160's on an actual LSAT to mid to upper 170's? Yes, games can use some increase.
If that's almost a guarantee then Oct & Nov will need to be 100% Fisch and no other jobs/work, and it will be worthwhile.)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 03:13:29 PM by CS1 »
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Offline CS91

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1642 on: September 25, 2016, 09:47:56 PM »
Yes -- he is competent and should be striving towards the 174-179 mark.
 
Agree 100% that a $5,000 job for 2-3 months is not worth it if one has a chance at $50K/year scholarship,
plus ideally a top T14 law school acceptance.

Yes, we'll need to look into Northwestern scholars. (The first year law school climate has changed due to fewer jobs being offered; they've possibly decreased their first year acceptance rates and scholarships due to lower enrollment overall in recent years.)

+100
Agreed!
It's not the money for Fisch that's the issue. It's worth every penny and then more.
The question is the 4 days/week commute to Manhattan plus the 8hrs/day studying and if leaving job, then not having the regular salary to pay for the monthly 2BR rent. This is a 4 month course that's been condensed into 2 months at the YU location.

It's still worth it on paper, however we wanted to know if Fisch is it that much better than religiously taking www.7sage.com LSAT courses? 
(Can Fisch get him from mid 160's on an actual LSAT to mid to upper 170's? Yes, games can use some increase.
If that's almost a guarantee then Oct & Nov will need to be 100% Fisch and no other jobs/work, and it will be worthwhile.)
If he still has room to improve on games, then IMO it's definitely worth it. Once learning the system, he should be going perfect (or very close to it) on games. That can help bridge the gap between where he is scoring now and where he wants to be.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1643 on: September 26, 2016, 04:42:55 PM »
The LSAT is the single most important test a lawyer will ever take in his career.

Spend the extra money and go with fish.

To be technical, that's not quite true for most lawyers. Most lawyers will have to take the bar, and if unsuccessful, will have wasted their LSAT score, tuition money, and many years of experience. I do agree, however, that the LSAT is the most important test to do well on.  :D

Obviously, I'm bored...

Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1644 on: September 26, 2016, 04:47:02 PM »
To be technical, that's not quite true for most lawyers. Most lawyers will have to take the bar, and if unsuccessful, will have wasted their LSAT score, tuition money, and many years of experience. I do agree, however, that the LSAT is the most important test to do well on.  :D

Obviously, I'm bored a lawyer or law student...

FTFY

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1645 on: September 26, 2016, 04:53:23 PM »
FTFY

But why did you strike the "bored"?  ;)

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1646 on: September 27, 2016, 11:34:45 PM »
I have a friend looking for a smart and confident young lawyer to join him in his sophisticated private practice (mostly commercial litigation, some transactional work) in downtown NY. he's been working hard for a while, gained lots of steady clients, and has gotten too busy and needs someone competent (so prob not straight out of law school) to work with him. great and smart frum guy, and pay will be reasonable (not biglaw but not the scraps from a PI firm) depending on experience. You will learn a ton from him. pm me if u want me to forward your resume.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1647 on: September 28, 2016, 12:24:53 PM »
To be technical, that's not quite true for most lawyers. Most lawyers will have to take the bar, and if unsuccessful, will have wasted their LSAT score, tuition money, and many years of experience. I do agree, however, that the LSAT is the most important test to do well on.  :D

so everyone is saying that it's worth is to quit your job, pay the $2K+ for the course, plus drop $4-5K in 6-8 weeks of studying time to aim for mid 170s on the LSATs and aim for a $60K year scholarship to a great law school? Sounds about right.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1648 on: September 28, 2016, 01:48:01 PM »
so everyone is saying that it's worth is to quit your job, pay the $2K+ for the course, plus drop $4-5K in 6-8 weeks of studying time to aim for mid 170s on the LSATs and aim for a $60K year scholarship to a great law school? Sounds about right.
No one can tell you what's worth it or not for this one person. In general it is worth whatever it takes to get as close to a 180 as humanly possible. Now if the course online will do that for him or if self study will do that for him no can tell you that.

I can tell you that I would no doubt drop everything over the next 2 months and only study for the LSAT 8-12 hours a day until I am consistently scoring my highest test score.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1649 on: September 28, 2016, 10:11:01 PM »
so everyone is saying that it's worth is to quit your job, pay the $2K+ for the course, plus drop $4-5K in 6-8 weeks of studying time to aim for mid 170s on the LSATs and aim for a $60K year scholarship to a great law school? Sounds about right.

I'm not sure I agree with that. What you should do depends on your situation and your aptitude toward multiple choice tests. Why don't you tell us a bit more about your situation? It would help if you specified whether the 5-6k is in addition to "quitting your job."

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1650 on: September 29, 2016, 09:47:35 AM »
I can tell you that I would no doubt drop everything over the next 2 months and only study for the LSAT 8-12 hours a day until I am consistently scoring my highest test score.

also need to consider your safety net. perhaps u have friends and family that can loan u some money/back u up if things don't work out for some reason (e.g. u freeze on the actual test/get sick) on this calculated gamble. some peeps who are basically on their own can't quit a job and live on unemployment for a year and then have no income for 3 more in law school (even if it works out).

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1651 on: September 29, 2016, 09:53:24 AM »

also need to consider your safety net. perhaps u have friends and family that can loan u some money/back u up if things don't work out for some reason (e.g. u freeze on the actual test/get sick) on this calculated gamble. some peeps who are basically on their own can't quit a job and live on unemployment for a year and then have no income for 3 more in law school (even if it works out).
All true, every case is unique.

But if you are taking loans for law school may as well take a few grand to study so you can get into a good law school.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1652 on: September 29, 2016, 11:52:15 AM »
I'm not sure I agree with that. What you should do depends on your situation and your aptitude toward multiple choice tests. Why don't you tell us a bit more about your situation? It would help if you specified whether the 5-6k is in addition to "quitting your job."

The $5 - $6K investment would be the class cost, plus the 1.5 months of time off the job cost.

All true, every case is unique.

But if you are taking loans for law school may as well take a few grand to study so you can get into a good law school.
+1000
Even just the goal of a 170 score can transform the $50+K/yr tuition fees into a free scholarship, so the $6K investment seems like a no-brainer.

It's challenging to see the upside of a $44K net gain when it's 2 yrs away. (Especially if we think that the $50K scholarship will come automatically even with a lower score and not quitting a job to practice the LSATs daily. However, if the LSAT score is the number that will be connected for eternity, then it's best to stop all other side jobs and time consuming activities and strive high towards the 180 as you recommended!)

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1653 on: September 29, 2016, 12:17:02 PM »
The $5 - $6K investment would be the class cost, plus the 1.5 months of time off the job cost.
+1000
Even just the goal of a 170 score can transform the $50+K/yr tuition fees into a free scholarship, so the $6K investment seems like a no-brainer.

It's challenging to see the upside of a $44K net gain when it's 2 yrs away. (Especially if we think that the $50K scholarship will come automatically even with a lower score and not quitting a job to practice the LSATs daily. However, if the LSAT score is the number that will be connected for eternity, then it's best to stop all other side jobs and time consuming activities and strive high towards the 180 as you recommended!)


No way does a 170 even guarantee admission into Northwestern, forget scholarship. Try for mid-170's or higher.

Also I think they like work experience from what I heard.

Actually with some very basic googling I found that "90% possess at least one year of post-undergraduate experience"

And

"How much does prior work/internship experience weigh into your decision making? What's the typical or expected amount of work experience from an applicant?

We are unique in this area. Although there are some exceptions, we almost exclusively try to enroll students who have some post-undergraduate full-time work experience­—ideally at least two to three years of it. Obviously it is very important to us and, for the college senior who is applying, the interview is the key place to offset this criterion by demonstrating a comparable level of maturity and fit for our community. There are many reasons that we like to see prior work experience but the main reason is that potential employers consistently tell us that they prefer it as well and that it makes a difference to them. In fact, they consistently mention that project management experience and ability is a huge plus for them; it is what makes their new employees stand out. Aside from that, we think of the law school experience as a 360-degree learning environment. Students learn from faculty, students learn from each other and, ultimately, our faculty members learn from our students. Moving to our preference for students with work experience has really enlivened our classroom discussions and it has greatly impacted our student culture, which is probably the most cooperative of any law school out there. No other law school takes the time to screen applicants so thoroughly for maturity, the ability to work in teams and strong interpersonal skills like we do through our work experience preference and interview process. Finally, through work experience, students often develop a much stronger framework for why they want to go to law school and the potential areas in which they may want to focus. The level of motivation and commitment goes up a notch."

With all that if you know you want North Western you shouldn't be teaching in a school should probably be looking for a more prestigious year of work. Unless you sell it as working with underprivileged kids and organizing programs etc.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1654 on: September 29, 2016, 12:28:40 PM »
No way does a 170 even guarantee admission into Northwestern, forget scholarship. Try for mid-170's or higher.

Also I think they like work experience from what I heard.
Actually with some very basic googling I found that "90% possess at least one year of post-undergraduate experience"

"How much does prior work/internship experience weigh into your decision making? What's the typical or expected amount of work experience from an applicant?

We are unique in this area. Although there are some exceptions, we almost exclusively try to enroll students who have some post-undergraduate full-time work experience­—ideally at least two to three years of it. ,,,,,......
....
....."

With all that if you know you want North Western you shouldn't be teaching in a school should probably be looking for a more prestigious year of work. Unless you sell it as working with underprivileged kids and organizing programs etc.

Uh Oh, it's time to get cracking. It sounds like Northwestern is stricter and has higher expectations than other law schools in the same tier.

Do they really expect pre-law students to have 2 yrs of law-related work under their belt?
Yes, the children/students can possibly be considered underprivileged and in need of additional guidance and programs.
Will work on those criteria and perhaps add'l job opportunities in areas of law after the Dec LSATs.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1655 on: September 29, 2016, 12:33:45 PM »
Uh Oh, it's time to get cracking. It sounds like Northwestern is stricter and has higher expectations than other law schools in the same tier.

Do they really expect pre-law students to have 2 yrs of law-related work under their belt?
Yes, the children/students can possibly be considered underprivileged and in need of additional guidance and programs.
Will work on those criteria and perhaps add'l job opportunities in areas of law after the Dec LSATs.
I don't think anyone says it has to be law related work, just something that you can argue will make him more mature, and a good lawyer.

Good luck!
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1656 on: September 29, 2016, 12:42:25 PM »
The $5 - $6K investment would be the class cost, plus the 1.5 months of time off the job cost.
+1000
Even just the goal of a 170 score can transform the $50+K/yr tuition fees into a free scholarship, so the $6K investment seems like a no-brainer.

It's challenging to see the upside of a $44K net gain when it's 2 yrs away. (Especially if we think that the $50K scholarship will come automatically even with a lower score and not quitting a job to practice the LSATs daily. However, if the LSAT score is the number that will be connected for eternity, then it's best to stop all other side jobs and time consuming activities and strive high towards the 180 as you recommended!)

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Have you taken a timed full LSAT? That would be my first step. Once you do that, and retrieve your score, you'll be in a better position to know what you should do. I'm a bit too lazy to go back and read; by when do you need to make this decision?


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Re: Law School
« Reply #1657 on: September 29, 2016, 01:31:31 PM »
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Have you taken a timed full LSAT? That would be my first step. Once you do that, and retrieve your score, you'll be in a better position to know what you should do. I'm a bit too lazy to go back and read; by when do you need to make this decision?

the original question was if the next 2 months should be a full-time Fish course plus 8 hrs/day taking tests.

This is to boost an original LSAT score from 2 yrs ago after lots of practice, but no formal classes.
To aim higher -- ideally for full scholarships at a T14, non-NY school.

Needed to know this week for fish's course, but also to take off work for 2 months and just study, practice, study, practice, and repeat.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #1658 on: September 29, 2016, 03:11:21 PM »
Just curious. How many people does Fish get into top schools? Is it a high percentage of his class?

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1659 on: September 29, 2016, 03:44:53 PM »
Just curious. How many people does Fish get into top schools? Is it a high percentage of his class?

High LSAT does not always equal top school, for the yeshivish velt.  As much as the rest of the world makes fun of "softs", I think it makes a way bigger difference for us