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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 232809 times)

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1780 on: February 26, 2017, 03:48:08 PM »
You knew all this information about your firm before you started working there? You selected to work there over other offers? (With a yamulka)
no. I knew they took peeps with relatively bad grades (me), i knew the people were more quirky, and i knew they had plenty of counsels so it wasnt 8 and out like other firms. I only interviewed with yarmulke, and in the end, when they gave me an offer i jumped on it (didnt get any others). Hashem did the heavy lifting.
note that your results may vary esp re yarmulke, i find that most places dont want a truly jewy jew and will reject u if u seem yeshivish, or if u get the job, partners/clients wont get close to u if u dont seem totally normal and cool and can talk some good "madda". i learned my lesson after a few interviews and switched my na-nach shlufkappel to a more modoxy black-knit.

Offline Ephcc90

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1781 on: February 26, 2017, 03:48:53 PM »
Both. :) You?
Well if you applied ED then you gotta go lol. I'm still waiting to here back from a few schools and really hoping Cls gives me some $$.

Offline michael

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1782 on: February 26, 2017, 03:53:00 PM »
R' JJ's right as to many law firms, but there are more than a handful that dont follow the classic biglaw rules but still pay market. just need to really discriminate and figure out which firm fits your plan. I went to a smaller biglaw place where people are generally more normal/less gunners and we are happy to have and keep people who do good work and make clients happy, even if they dont bring in new business. counsel positions make more than associates, and grow each year basically in line with the associate raise scale, but with bigger bonus opportunities and values for bringing in business (if u do). and if u are really lucky (and this is probably rare and requires special circumstances with rainmakers/imp partners loving u), u can even make equity partner without bringing in your own business, and even with a yarmulke! That will require lots of sacrifice (working all night when needed, going the extra mile for the client to make their job easier etc), but i make much more than most of my inhouse counterparts (based on equiv seniority), and they work prob 2/3s as much as i do. and i dont have a normal 9/5 and can work from home/unlimited vacations etc, being more of a hired gun without 9/5 annoying requirements that inhouse people suffer with.

My experience is similar. Smaller "biglaw" firm that pays market. I may not make partner, but I was told I can stick around for several years anyway with accompanying salary bumps, and hopefully an increase in quality of life.

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1783 on: February 26, 2017, 03:56:07 PM »
My experience is similar. Smaller "biglaw" firm that pays market. I may not make partner, but I was told I can stick around for several years anyway with accompanying salary bumps, and hopefully an increase in quality of life.
Do you know of people in your firm who are there for longer who have been able to do that (stick around and be able to spend more time with family)?

Offline Ephcc90

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1784 on: February 26, 2017, 03:59:49 PM »
Aren't we all hoping that. But good luck to you with that. I wish I had any leverage...
Thanks same to you. You going March 1st?

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1785 on: February 26, 2017, 04:09:31 PM »
Thanks same to you. You going March 1st?
Nah I don't need any pitch. I'm going.

Offline CS91

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1786 on: February 26, 2017, 04:41:20 PM »
There have been a lot of different topics of discussion going around, but just wanted to comment re: being a frum associate and therefore being unavailable on Shabbos. I'm sure there are firms where they really don't like it and it'll hurt your chances at partnership, but that's far from the case at every firm in NYC. My firm is super understanding and accepting to the extent that if I'm cutting it a bit too close on a Friday, they'll basically throw me out of the office because they don't want me to be late. As long as you're willing to make it up, they don't mind it at all. This year, two frum people got promoted to partner and least year there was one.

It's a give and take. There have been times when I needed people to cover for me on Shabbos because it was smack in the middle of the busiest time of the deal, but I've also covered for people when they had family situations and they needed to be offline. If you're committed and work hard, and that means working late on Saturday nights to make up for being offline on Shabbos, at least IME, being frum won't hurt you in terms of getting staffed on deals.

Offline michael

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1787 on: February 26, 2017, 07:48:31 PM »
Do you know of people in your firm who are there for longer who have been able to do that (stick around and be able to spend more time with family)?

Some. At least at my firm, many partners work harder than associates, so more senior non-partners have a somewhat easier life. Several frum people, particularly the women, moved to part time.

Offline Thingywingy

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1788 on: February 28, 2017, 06:29:15 PM »
Anyone know what LSAT/GPA is needed to get the largest (45k / 55k) scholarship at Fordham?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 06:34:39 PM by Thingywingy »
I am sometimes accused of overthinking things. I am still mulling over whether that accusation has merit.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1789 on: March 01, 2017, 12:14:43 AM »
Hi first time poster here. Just spent the last few days reading through the whole thread. Pretty interesting stuff.  ;)
Anyways, I'm a BTL guy starting Columbia this year and as I was reading through I noticed that a few times people mentioned that after a few years you have to transition out of BigLaw, and how that is mostly inevitable and difficult. Can I ask why that is? Even though I assuredly won't make partner, why wouldn't a firm want to keep me as long as I am useful until I am able to leave on my terms?

( I know there is a good chance I am being naive and all that, gettin waaay ahead of myself etc. )

The short answer to your question is because the lifestyle is unsustainable for many. Not everyone wants to constantly be on call in a service driven industry.

I've been at my firm for almost 4 years (big-law V 10 firm) and more than half of my original starting class (about 100 of us) is already gone.  Some went in-house, others moved to different cities, some switched firms. Some left the law entirely as soon as they paid off their law school loans.

My own theory as to why frum jews get into big-law (in addition to being good lawyers, serving clients well etc.) is because they are often the ones who will stick around longer in order to pay for their kids' day school tuition and the rest of the expensive lifestyle. I would not be surprised if the attrition rate among junior to mid-level associates is higher among the general world of associates than the frum subset who has no choice but to make a six figure salary to live that chosen lifestyle.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:18:38 AM by eliteflyer »

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1790 on: March 01, 2017, 11:47:36 AM »
Hi, looking for suggestions on how to improve on the reading comprehension section of the LSAT. The impression I got from the LSAT blogs is that the 170+ scorers generally do not have any issues with the reading comp section. I'm asking as a yeshiva guy, who hasn't done much high level reading in the past. I specifically want to know if those of you who scored 170+ were able to master this section, or did you focus more on perfecting the LR and LG?

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1791 on: March 01, 2017, 11:47:48 AM »
Is it even possible to pay sticker at Cls and afford a frum lifestyle even if you get biglaw?

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1792 on: March 01, 2017, 11:59:57 AM »
Is it even possible to pay sticker at Cls and afford a frum lifestyle even if you get biglaw?
i did it (with loans), first few years i didnt do much heavy spending and focused on paying off higher interest loans. but i didnt have any kids in school at the time and wife stayed home with babies bh.

Online jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1793 on: March 01, 2017, 12:02:53 PM »
Hi, looking for suggestions on how to improve on the reading comprehension section of the LSAT. The impression I got from the LSAT blogs is that the 170+ scorers generally do not have any issues with the reading comp section. I'm asking as a yeshiva guy, who hasn't done much high level reading in the past. I specifically want to know if those of you who scored 170+ were able to master this section, or did you focus more on perfecting the LR and LG?
RC is the hardest section to improve on by far. Not many tricks that I've read. One thing I was told to do by Fisch was doing the section un-timed and trying to score 100%, go over what you get wrong and keep doing that. Also once you get better at how many you get right you can try some 25min RC sections and see how you do with 10 less minutes. If you are scoring similar or just a few less than 35 min you know you have what to improve on in 35min.

I highly recommend taking Fisch and doing lots of practice sections/tests.
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Online jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1794 on: March 01, 2017, 12:04:04 PM »
i did it (with loans), first few years i didnt do much heavy spending and focused on paying off higher interest loans. but i didnt have any kids in school at the time and wife stayed home with babies bh.
Agreed I think it depends on how many kids, but I don't think it's an issue for most that get big law.
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Offline eliteflyer

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1795 on: March 01, 2017, 02:11:36 PM »
Is it even possible to pay sticker at Cls and afford a frum lifestyle even if you get biglaw?
CLS tuition for three years (I had a 30% effective discount) with frugal spending habits and a big-law summer associate position for at least one summer (where current market rate is pro-rated $180K first year salary) helping to defray the costs is a drop in the bucket compared to the expense of sending children to jewish day schools and living in NYC. It helped that our children were born after I started working, but I had a few classmates with children.

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1796 on: March 01, 2017, 11:52:33 PM »
Hi, looking for suggestions on how to improve on the reading comprehension section of the LSAT. The impression I got from the LSAT blogs is that the 170+ scorers generally do not have any issues with the reading comp section. I'm asking as a yeshiva guy, who hasn't done much high level reading in the past. I specifically want to know if those of you who scored 170+ were able to master this section, or did you focus more on perfecting the LR and LG?
Yeah, RC is tricky. I didn't take Fisch so I can't speak for what he says, but in my experience the best way to approach RC questions is with the same strategy as LR questions, except that almost all of them are of the must be true variety. Once you understand intuitively the relationship between the stimulus and the question then you best know what to look for. But with RC you never know and still have to hope that you don't get a crazy passage that is complicated AND time consuming. But definitely do not only concentrate on the other sections, every 170 scorer needs to be able to excel at RC as well.

Speaking as a yeshiva guy who recently took the lsat.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1797 on: March 02, 2017, 12:07:23 AM »
Nah I don't need any pitch. I'm going.
I guess your username would be pretty gutsy if you didn't plan on going...and finishing.

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1798 on: March 02, 2017, 06:51:17 AM »
I guess your username would be pretty gutsy if you didn't plan on going...and finishing.
Who would know if I didn't?

Offline Thingywingy

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Re: Law School
« Reply #1799 on: March 02, 2017, 03:38:03 PM »
Who would know if I didn't?
Now that the kind of reasoning I expect from a CLS student! ;D
I am sometimes accused of overthinking things. I am still mulling over whether that accusation has merit.