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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 201989 times)

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2250 on: June 09, 2020, 09:50:19 AM »
Iím thinking about going for law, as is pretty noticeable  :) and have been reading up on this thread. I see a recent discussion was this precisely; what are the hours for biglaw. I didnít see a clear consensus on this, though. What is the average expected work week? Are there options with normal work hours? If I do not want to do 50-60(+) hour work weeks long term, I should forget about biglaw (and possibly all law)? What about doing it for a few years, what are the exit options after that? I am pretty analytical, and think I can do well in the actual practice of law, but not sure what else is generally needed to do well.
The most classic exit is working at an internal legal department. Hours will be far more reasonable. You also get general access to the business community & can be offered any job or partnership along the way. You can also have an easier time getting accepted into business school & following an MBA career path.

If your concern is work/life balance, it very well may be worth working hard for a couple of years & then getting off the highway. But if you detest working and every day is a struggle, I doubt you'll be able to push yourself the whole way, and you're likely to give up in middle and be stuck with large debt.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #2251 on: June 09, 2020, 10:10:15 AM »
The most classic exit is working at an internal legal department. Hours will be far more reasonable. You also get general access to the business community & can be offered any job or partnership along the way. You can also have an easier time getting accepted into business school & following an MBA career path.

If your concern is work/life balance, it very well may be worth working hard for a couple of years & then getting off the highway. But if you detest working and every day is a struggle, I doubt you'll be able to push yourself the whole way, and you're likely to give up in middle and be stuck with large debt.
If you want to get an MBA please skip law school, unless you want to do a MBA/JD dual degree in 3 years, those are cool, although may not be worthwhile either.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #2252 on: June 10, 2020, 11:13:54 AM »
if u expect/need the biglaw payoff u cant expect to work less than an average of 60 hours a week (or u will be let go these days pretty quick if work is otherwise available). sure u might get lucky, or as is more likely, if your people skills arent as good as a goy named tyler who played varsity polo, and your grades arent S&C/Wachtell level, u will probably end up at one or another large sweatshops where u can cost for 3 years just doing heavy hours of doc review or due diligence before u figure out what u will do. options really depend on clients and also to an extent your relationships from law school or otherwise.
The most classic exit is working at an internal legal department. Hours will be far more reasonable. You also get general access to the business community & can be offered any job or partnership along the way. You can also have an easier time getting accepted into business school & following an MBA career path.

If your concern is work/life balance, it very well may be worth working hard for a couple of years & then getting off the highway. But if you detest working and every day is a struggle, I doubt you'll be able to push yourself the whole way, and you're likely to give up in middle and be stuck with large debt.
If you want to get an MBA please skip law school, unless you want to do a MBA/JD dual degree in 3 years, those are cool, although may not be worthwhile either.
Thanks for all the responses.
So it seems the general consensus here is that to start, you definitely have to expect long work weeks. Iím ok with this for a number of years. I donít have a problem working hard for a few years, I just donít want to go down a path that entails 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week, plus commute, for the next 30 odd years. That is too much. A few years of it is certainly fine.
What Iím trying to get a good sense of is, what is the likelihood of getting these internal legal jobs, or other job that has more reasonable hours.
Is it a bad idea to go down this path if I donít want to do big law long term.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2253 on: June 10, 2020, 11:30:54 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.
So it seems the general consensus here is that to start, you definitely have to expect long work weeks. Iím ok with this for a number of years. I donít have a problem working hard for a few years, I just donít want to go down a path that entails 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week, plus commute, for the next 30 odd years. That is too much. A few years of it is certainly fine.
What Iím trying to get a good sense of is, what is the likelihood of getting these internal legal jobs, or other job that has more reasonable hours.
Is it a bad idea to go down this path if I donít want to do big law long term.
I don't know numbers for that, and https://www.top-law-schools.com/ may have better stats on that, but a lot of this has to do with your personality.

If you are a good peoples person you'll obviously be more likely to be hired for an in-house council job. Or open your own firm if you are a go getter etc.

There are just so many variables it's hard to predict something like that.
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Offline monoso

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2254 on: June 10, 2020, 02:17:19 PM »
Thanks for all the responses.
So it seems the general consensus here is that to start, you definitely have to expect long work weeks. Iím ok with this for a number of years. I donít have a problem working hard for a few years, I just donít want to go down a path that entails 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week, plus commute, for the next 30 odd years. That is too much. A few years of it is certainly fine.
What Iím trying to get a good sense of is, what is the likelihood of getting these internal legal jobs, or other job that has more reasonable hours.
Is it a bad idea to go down this path if I donít want to do big law long term.
There is a path of working in a more mid level firm where hours can be better, finish work at 7 for the most part, work at home several days a week , and generally do not have work on sundays maybe 2-3 hours.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2255 on: June 10, 2020, 04:32:41 PM »
i'll just note that in house does not mean anything close to a 40 hour work week (unless u are in compliance or some specialty). most of my inhouse clients work hours close to mine and have a lot more face time requirements.
the plus of staying at a firm is as u get senior people are fine with you working from home whenever u want so that saves lots of commute time.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2256 on: July 01, 2020, 11:38:24 AM »
If anyone is looking for an LSAT tutor, please pm me.

Offline smb2270

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2257 on: July 22, 2020, 10:06:43 PM »
A lot of scholarship is financial related. If you don't qualify financially I wouldn't bank on getting a scholarship from T7.

Just know if you want big law it'll be a worthwhile investment going to a T7.
Need based aid can overcome "average" scores.  Anecdotally, NYU Law gave me 20k/yr 166 3.84 from Touro.  In off the WL in August.  Though NYU conflates need/merit aid, I probably got need based because late in cycle.  Also consider if you are 26 or older, as 26+ does not have to report parental income and is considered financially independent.  Or you can have stellar scores and theyll throw $ at you.  But probably pays to take the LSAT before hypothesizing!

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2258 on: July 22, 2020, 10:13:06 PM »
Thanks for all the responses.
So it seems the general consensus here is that to start, you definitely have to expect long work weeks. Iím ok with this for a number of years. I donít have a problem working hard for a few years, I just donít want to go down a path that entails 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week, plus commute, for the next 30 odd years. That is too much. A few years of it is certainly fine.
What Iím trying to get a good sense of is, what is the likelihood of getting these internal legal jobs, or other job that has more reasonable hours.
Is it a bad idea to go down this path if I donít want to do big law long term.
I am currently interning in house at a hedge fund and also worked at a large tech company.  While in house positions are challenging to come by, ive worked with people who disnt go to great law schools/didnt work in BL and got the position by pure hustle and just wanting it real badly. 

But consider that BL and corporations look for a certain type.  Wear you tzitzis out or wear a white shirt every day?  Any grease?  These positions arent for you.  Unfortunately, some of my LS classmates who fit this description learned the hard way. 

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2259 on: July 23, 2020, 12:18:43 AM »


But consider that BL and corporations look for a certain type.  Wear you tzitzis out or wear a white shirt every day?  Any grease?  These positions arent for you.  Unfortunately, some of my LS classmates who fit this description learned the hard way. 
Do you mind providing a little more detail?
I understand the personality thing but why would they have an issue with dressing more formally? (Nice, Tailored Suit + White shirt) if anything wouldn't that give you some authority?
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Re: Law School
« Reply #2260 on: July 23, 2020, 01:30:27 AM »
A lot of big law around here, where are my small law people?

For anyone who wants a different perspective, I graduated in 2012, and like almost all my friends who graduated in 11 and 12, I could not land a big law job because there simply weren't any.

Big law is not the only path. Many (though not all) of my friends who graduated then have good paying jobs outside of big law. Most of us did not start out that way. If you're ready to start with a low paying job, work hard at making yourself smart in one or more practice areas, and play the long game, this path can work for you. It's not what I expected but it's worked out.

The result for me is a great paying job that I love, excellent quality of life, a marketable skill set, far reaching contacts, and maybe most importantly my own book of business.

I'm not saying it's easy and it certainly comes with challenges but then so does big law.



If you don't care why would you comment?
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Re: Law School
« Reply #2261 on: July 23, 2020, 11:39:32 AM »
Do you mind providing a little more detail?
I understand the personality thing but why would they have an issue with dressing more formally? (Nice, Tailored Suit + White shirt) if anything wouldn't that give you some authority?
People who are more yeshivish can obviously dress formally, but will inevitably look, and much more importantly, act, differently.  If you're not worldy, going to LS in hopes of a BL job can be risky, especially in today's market.  Obviously, spectacualr grades will overcome all amounts of grease, but it pays to realize that the corporate world attracts its own.

Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2262 on: July 24, 2020, 01:45:02 AM »
Are the 0Ls thinking of deferring?  Obviously nobody can read future but if lots of ppl deferring, you can imagine that class being a studentsí market if theres good hiring demand but fewer top students

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2263 on: July 24, 2020, 05:00:42 AM »
Are the 0Ls thinking of deferring?  Obviously nobody can read future but if lots of ppl deferring, you can imagine that class being a studentsí market if theres good hiring demand but fewer top students
what? That's the only reason we keep you around
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2264 on: July 27, 2020, 01:07:17 PM »
Any recommendations on anyone helping with the full school application process like resume and ps?