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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 398472 times)

Offline Frostboot

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Re: Law School
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2013, 11:14:11 AM »
Amen, AJK is an exceptionally faithful person. I believe in a stronger level of bechira (the Ohr Hachaim view) that we can do things that are not necessarily in the plan, and of course our activities affect us (so e.g. if instead of stealing $100 or working for the "intended" $10 i just sit at home and watch Ricki Lake, i won't even get $10).

per my experience and anecdotally, yarmulke does make a difference, but hey, a lot of this is "luck/hashgacha pratis" in any event. but if u are a guy that will wear a yarmulke, i would strongly suggest u take the significant chance of more rigorous hiring scrutiny in your law school decision.

Ricki Lake!?!? That show is still around?? Blast from the past...

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2013, 11:14:43 AM »
Of course. I should be clearer.

As I always say: If a person is "meant to" live until 98 years old, but at 27 decides to snort coke and then play in traffic on the 405 while blindfolded, he has no "tayna" on Gd when he gets up to the "Pearly Gates" and says: "But, wait! I has 'supposed' to to have 71 more years!!"  ::)

However, acting within the realm of what's considered "normal" or "right" (those can both be debated ad nauseaum), one will get exactly what's meant for him or her.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Frostboot

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Re: Law School
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2013, 11:18:47 AM »
Of course. I should be clearer.

As I always say: If a person is "meant to" live until 98 years old, but at 27 decides to snort coke and then play in traffic on the 405 while blindfolded, he has no "tayna" on Gd when he gets up to the "Pearly Gates" and says: "But, wait! I has 'supposed' to to have 71 more years!!"  ::)

However, acting within the realm of what's considered "normal" or "right" (those can both be debated ad nauseaum), one will get exactly what's meant for him or her.

I personally am not sure how G-d operates. I never met him. Would love to though (not too soon)

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2013, 11:20:12 AM »
Well, then trust me on this.

You'd have no tayna on Gd in the above scenario.

I've met Him. Do so every day.
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Offline twentie4hrs

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Re: Law School
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2013, 11:20:18 AM »
Of course. I should be clearer.

As I always say: If a person is "meant to" live until 98 years old, but at 27 decides to snort coke and then play in traffic on the 405 while blindfolded, he has no "tayna" on Gd when he gets up to the "Pearly Gates" and says: "But, wait! I has 'supposed' to to have 71 more years!!"  ::)

However, acting within the realm of what's considered "normal" or "right" (those can both be debated ad nauseaum), one will get exactly what's meant for him or her.

This is all subjective to the location of the firm.

In larger cities with more "yarmulke-wearing Jews" there is going to above-average consideration (Could be good, Could be bad, Could not make a difference) in the hiring practices, just based on more exposure to Jews in general.

A penny saved is 1 cent

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #205 on: December 19, 2013, 11:21:15 AM »
This is all subjective to the location of the firm.

In larger cities with more "yarmulke-wearing Jews" there is going to above-average consideration (Could be good, Could be bad, Could not make a difference) in the hiring practices, just based on more exposure to Jews in general.

100%.

That's why I was quick to say that I made the decision in the context of "this particular job in this particular market."

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Offline twentie4hrs

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Re: Law School
« Reply #206 on: December 19, 2013, 11:22:05 AM »
100%.

That's why I was quick to say that I made the decision in the context of "this particular job in this particular market."

I know…it was more meant for the other guys
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Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #207 on: December 19, 2013, 11:22:53 AM »
Slightly OT: But my father (who worked down south) was once asked by a colleague if he'd obliger her by showing her "his horns under his skull cap."
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Frostboot

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Re: Law School
« Reply #208 on: December 19, 2013, 11:24:35 AM »
Slightly OT: But my father (who worked down south) was once asked by a colleague if he'd obliger her by showing her "his horns under his skull cap."

I am amazed when I hear those stories. Are people still so ignorant?

Offline twentie4hrs

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Re: Law School
« Reply #209 on: December 19, 2013, 11:25:17 AM »
I am amazed when I hear those stories. Are people still so ignorant?

Wait a minute…I'm not supposed to have horns?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #210 on: December 19, 2013, 11:26:09 AM »
I am amazed when I hear those stories. Are people still so ignorant?

This was 40+ years ago, if it makes a difference to your amazement.
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Online jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #211 on: December 19, 2013, 11:32:53 AM »
This was 40+ years ago, if it makes a difference to your amazement.
Happened to me a couple times on a greyhound bus in the past 10 years.
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Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #212 on: December 19, 2013, 11:36:53 AM »
Happened to me a couple times on a greyhound bus in the past 10 years.

Perhaps because taking greyhound busses is so 40 years ago...

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Re: Law School
« Reply #213 on: December 19, 2013, 06:21:24 PM »
Let me make it easier for you: consider the school you went to, the market you work in (I assume NYC), your grades, and the time period you entered the market, adjust for external factors (Are you the super personal/quiet type). Now, do you think you got as many offers as a comparable classmate?

Using the formula that you set out, I think that if anything I out-performed my comparable classmates while wearing a kippah to every interview. I think that when interviewers are seeing 20-30 candidates a day, it can be hard to remember exactly who was whom. Having a distinguishing feature makes it easier for them to remember the impression you made- good or bad. I even had an interview where I talked at length about being shomer shabbat and the discipline, work ethic, and sense of self-identity that these restrictions have fostered. (I got a callback but turned it down).

I'm not saying that this is definitely the case with everyone, but you have to be very careful about the self-affirmation bias. If someone hears even a hint that it may not be their qualifications that lost them the job, they are quick to jump on it. So even if the kippa is playing some small role, I think it is very easy for people to play up that role, rather than be introspective about how their personality or life experiences may have impacted them.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #214 on: December 19, 2013, 06:54:37 PM »

I'm not saying that this is definitely the case with everyone, but you have to be very careful about the self-affirmation bias. If someone hears even a hint that it may not be their qualifications that lost them the job, they are quick to jump on it. So even if the kippa is playing some small role, I think it is very easy for people to play up that role, rather than be introspective about how their personality or life experiences may have impacted them.

Please explain more clearly what you are saying?

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Re: Law School
« Reply #215 on: December 19, 2013, 07:40:56 PM »
Please explain more clearly what you are saying?
to blame yourself not your yalmuka.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2013, 08:24:12 PM »
to blame yourself not your yalmuka.

Thanks. I didn't understand the part about lost jobs. I don't think people actually lost their law jobs due to wearing a Yarmulka, I just think it negatively impacts you on the 20min screener. 

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Re: Law School
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2013, 08:29:10 PM »
Thanks. I didn't understand the part about lost jobs. I don't think people actually lost their law jobs due to wearing a Yarmulka, I just think it negatively impacts you on the 20min screener. 
I never went though interviews so I don't feel comfortable giving an opinion but this made a lot of sense to me
BTLs in my experience were not at a particular disadvantage with respect to actual classes or performance on law school exams. Instead, the real challenges appeared to arise in interviews where they often lacked the confidence to convince a hiring partner that they were just as savvy and prepared as the their peers who came up through more traditional channels.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #218 on: December 19, 2013, 09:57:21 PM »
I never went though interviews so I don't feel comfortable giving an opinion but this made a lot of sense to me

BTLs!!! thats a whole other story. I don't see how a BTL wouldn't hurt you.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #219 on: December 19, 2013, 10:00:31 PM »
I never went though interviews so I don't feel comfortable giving an opinion but this made a lot of sense to me


It is hard to generalize but I do think that most BTLs (Yeshiva guys) are at a disadvantage when they go to law school…at least at a top-tiered school.