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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 398261 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Law School
« Reply #220 on: December 19, 2013, 10:09:05 PM »

It is hard to generalize but I do think that most BTLs (Yeshiva guys) are at a disadvantage when they go to law school…at least at a top-tiered school.
The schooling or the other parts?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:17:44 PM by Ergel »
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Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #221 on: December 19, 2013, 10:23:53 PM »

It is hard to generalize but I do think that most BTLs (Yeshiva guys) are at a disadvantage when they go to law school…at least at a top-tiered school.

That has not been my experience.

Offline Frostboot

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Re: Law School
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2013, 10:28:29 PM »
That has not been my experience.

I was generalizing or at least attempting to. I am assuming you have a BTL…you don't think it put you at a disadvantage w/ regard to getting a job? I would think it would adversely effect you even more in an out-of-NY market.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Law School
« Reply #223 on: December 19, 2013, 11:20:37 PM »
I was generalizing or at least attempting to. I am assuming you have a BTL…you don't think it put you at a disadvantage w/ regard to getting a job? I would think it would adversely effect you even more in an out-of-NY market.
Are you saying BTLs aren't prepared for the schooling? Or it looks bad on your resume? Or they aren't prepared to interview?
I'd disagree about one and two (if he went to a top school) and agree with number three
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Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #224 on: December 19, 2013, 11:28:23 PM »
I was generalizing or at least attempting to. I am assuming you have a BTL…you don't think it put you at a disadvantage w/ regard to getting a job? I would think it would adversely effect you even more in an out-of-NY market.

I'm saying it has not been my experience among myself and people I know that BTL's are disadvantaged in any significant way once they get to law school.

Offline Frostboot

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Re: Law School
« Reply #225 on: December 19, 2013, 11:32:19 PM »
Are you saying BTLs aren't prepared for the schooling? Or it looks bad on your resume? Or they aren't prepared to interview?
I'd disagree about one and two (if he went to a top school) and agree with number three

I would say the exact opposite. The LSATs are totally different than a law school exam. I would say its easier for a Yeshiva guy to do extremely well on the LSAT, get into a top school but then have trouble keeping up with his Harvard, Yale, Princeton educated classmates when it comes to the Final Exam process. As for resume, I think it looks pretty bad, especially at a top school where most of his classmates have: BA, Princeton University, and he has: BTL, Beth Medrash Gevoah. As for interview, I think a yeshiva guy may be able to make up for his weaknesses if he has a really confident personality, dresses well, and could talk the talk and play the game.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #226 on: December 19, 2013, 11:36:43 PM »
I would say the exact opposite. The LSATs are totally different than a law school exam. I would say its easier for a Yeshiva guy to do extremely well on the LSAT, get into a top school but then have trouble keeping up with his Harvard, Yale, Princeton educated classmates when it comes to the Final Exam process. As for resume, I think it looks pretty bad, especially at a top school where most of his classmates have: BA, Princeton University, and he has: BTL, Beth Medrash Gevoah. As for interview, I think a yeshiva guy may be able to make up for his weaknesses if he has a really confident personality, dresses well, and could talk the talk and play the game.
If you are in Harvard they don't care you went to BMG FWIU.

I do think BTL's are at a disadvantage when it comes to written exams. An A exam can have 10,000 words in 4 hours. Most yeshiva guys haven't written 10,000 in 4 years.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #227 on: December 19, 2013, 11:37:50 PM »
I'm saying it has not been my experience among myself and people I know that BTL's are disadvantaged in any significant way once they get to law school.

How could it not disadvantage you on an interview?? That doesn't make sense. They defineltly do consider your undergraduate degree , meaning a candidate with a  degree from Stanford trumps a candidate with a degree from Touro, all else considered equal. I would think a BTL is inferior to most BA's especially those held by students in top law schools? What your saying just doesn't seem to make sense. Granted there are rare exceptions (A guy with a BTL once saved the interviewer's life etc.) but if I had to generalize…..

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Re: Law School
« Reply #228 on: December 19, 2013, 11:40:01 PM »
If you are in Harvard they don't care you went to BMG FWIU.

I do think BTL's are at a disadvantage when it comes to written exams. An A exam can have 10,000 words in 4 hours. Most yeshiva guys haven't written 10,000 in 4 years.

Defineltly true about exams. Thats why Yeshiava guys have to find the classes with multiple choice exams  :D

As for Harvard, I would think employers do care, at least some. Granted it would mean only getting 15 offers instead of 20  :'(  Add a yarmulka and it may drop to 10.  :'( :'(

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Re: Law School
« Reply #229 on: December 19, 2013, 11:42:03 PM »
Defineltly true about exams. Thats why Yeshiava guys have to find the classes with multiple choice exams  :D
1L grades is what matters and you don't choose your course at least 6/8 you don't generally.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #230 on: December 19, 2013, 11:43:26 PM »
1L grades is what matters and you don't choose your course at least 6/8 you don't generally.

Thats true. But I do have friends who boosted their grades tremendously during 2L year taking the "right" courses and who were able to score BigLaw jobs.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #231 on: December 19, 2013, 11:43:55 PM »
Everyone here makes it seem like getting into Harvard=big law job. I know people who are under or unemployed graduating from Harvard
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Re: Law School
« Reply #232 on: December 19, 2013, 11:44:55 PM »
Everyone here makes it seem like getting into Harvard=big law job. I know people who are under or unemployed graduating from Harvard

Yeah, URMs.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #233 on: December 19, 2013, 11:46:51 PM »
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Re: Law School
« Reply #234 on: December 19, 2013, 11:47:19 PM »
Everyone here makes it seem like getting into Harvard=big law job. I know people who are under or unemployed graduating from Harvard
Said earlier in this thread Penn has higher big law employment percentages than Harvard :)

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Re: Law School
« Reply #235 on: December 19, 2013, 11:54:06 PM »
URM?
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Re: Law School
« Reply #236 on: December 20, 2013, 12:04:10 AM »
URM?
under represented minority. He's saying blacks and latinos get in because of URM receiving affirmative action in applications, but they don't score as well in school and therefore do not get jobs like everyone else. Or that hiring partners are still racist.
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Re: Law School
« Reply #237 on: December 20, 2013, 12:17:04 AM »
under represented minority. He's saying blacks and latinos get in because of URM receiving affirmative action in applications, but they don't score as well in school and therefore do not get jobs like everyone else. Or that hiring partners are still racist.

I was definitely surprised when there was not one black in my summer class (at a BigLaw firm). At my firm there are maybe a couple of black partners and only several black associates. This is after hearing so much abut how diverse they were during the recruiting process.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #238 on: December 20, 2013, 12:18:58 AM »
Said earlier in this thread Penn has higher big law employment percentages than Harvard :)

Could just mean that a higher percentage of students at Penn are shooting for BigLaw than HLS students who may be going into the public sector at a higher percentage than Penn students.

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Re: Law School
« Reply #239 on: December 20, 2013, 12:22:51 AM »
I would say the exact opposite. The LSATs are totally different than a law school exam. I would say its easier for a Yeshiva guy to do extremely well on the LSAT, get into a top school but then have trouble keeping up with his Harvard, Yale, Princeton educated classmates when it comes to the Final Exam process. As for resume, I think it looks pretty bad, especially at a top school where most of his classmates have: BA, Princeton University, and he has: BTL, Beth Medrash Gevoah. As for interview, I think a yeshiva guy may be able to make up for his weaknesses if he has a really confident personality, dresses well, and could talk the talk and play the game.

I am a BTLer, and i wholeheartedly approve this message except as to the last part, that is fully dependent on a special personality, who would naturally go far anywhere.
i did great on all short answer/multiple choice exams in my life, but pretty bad on my first law school exams (never wrote anything for anyone before law school so im sure my exam responses were in full yeshivishese).

Re URMs, i think that point is silly, as many firms grab them up because its good on their website and clients like it, and to be clear, i know several who are very smart and capable and i love working with them (in fact i dont remember ever working with an incapable one, as opposed to smart-ass whitey's who have gotten their life delivered on a silver platter b/c their dads went to harvard).