Author Topic: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?  (Read 17325 times)

Offline joey89

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2012, 02:29:42 AM »
Did shevet levi actually ever fight in a war?
After חטא העגל

Offline AsherO

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2012, 02:31:40 AM »
Did shevet levi actually ever fight in a war?

See Rashi (Bamidbar 31:4) regarding war with מדין.


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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2012, 03:47:35 AM »
But if serving in the army requires you to listen females singing?...
Is this part of the intense training program, or methods of arab torture?
Create professional looking itineraries.
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Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2012, 08:48:46 AM »
Platinum -- hate to burst your bubble, and please don't take this personally or as an afront to the Haredi way of life, but who in Israel would attempt to "block the emigration" of tens of thousands of Yeshiva students  who don't work and don't serve in the army, and live primarily off government and charitable subsidies?!?!?

If the kollel/yeshivos went, the rest of the chareidi community would go, too. And contrary to what the non-religious newspapers would like you to believe, there is a significant number of chareidi jews that work, and produce significantly. Also consider the loss of major american religious institutions and lobby groups.

Offline David B

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2012, 09:36:48 AM »
If the kollel/yeshivos went, the rest of the chareidi community would go, too. And contrary to what the non-religious newspapers would like you to believe, there is a significant number of chareidi jews that work, and produce significantly. Also consider the loss of major american religious institutions and lobby groups.


While there are a significant number of Chareidim who work, a significant number of them work for non-profit institutions (whether Yeshivos or assistance organizations) that exist to support the rest of the community that isn't working or isn't making ends meet.  My comments are not based on newspaper reports of non-religious newspapers.  It's unfortunate, but to use an analogy from the business world, it's a business model that's broken.  There are too many that don't work, and not enough that work to support those that don't.  One of the most lucrative pursuits in Israel these days is a trip to NY to raise money from local shuls and people here.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2012, 09:46:07 AM »


While there are a significant number of Chareidim who work, a significant number of them work for non-profit institutions (whether Yeshivos or assistance organizations) that exist to support the rest of the community that isn't working or isn't making ends meet.  My comments are not based on newspaper reports of non-religious newspapers.  It's unfortunate, but to use an analogy from the business world, it's a business model that's broken.  There are too many that don't work, and not enough that work to support those that don't.  One of the most lucrative pursuits in Israel these days is a trip to NY to raise money from local shuls and people here.
its also happening here in lakewood to a lesser extent
at some point in time if not already reached there will be a tipping point when the rest of the jews cannot support the kolels anymore

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2012, 12:26:12 PM »
Platinum -- hate to burst your bubble, and please don't take this personally or as an afront to the Haredi way of life, but who in Israel would attempt to "block the emigration" of tens of thousands of Yeshiva students  who don't work and don't serve in the army, and live primarily off government and charitable subsidies?!?!?
I'm not saying anyone want them here; however it would trigger a mass exodus, & can cause Israel to lose it legitimization as the Jewish State.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2012, 01:09:09 PM »
israel will be forever known as a jewish state even if the chareidim leave

Offline David B

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2012, 02:43:49 PM »
israel will be forever known as a jewish state even if the chareidim leave
+1

And the Chareidim aren't going anywhere...the gravy train is too tasty there...Army exemption or not.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2012, 08:20:35 AM »
Last nights developments probably merit their own thread, but here's for starters:
(Israel is in a complete uproar. )



national unity government
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Amir Mizroch

Netanyahu, king of Israel
On Sunday night at the Likud conference, the settlers won the battle by embarrassing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and forcing him to postpone the vote on his presidency of the Likud's convention. Early Tuesday morning, Netanyahu returned the favor, and won the war.

By striking the kind of deal he struck with Shaul Mofaz of Kadima, the deal of his life, the prime minister has put himself out of the reach of his party's right wing, out of the reach of Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's machinations, out of the reach of Shas' extortions, and out of the reach of U.S. President Barack Obama. He has also buried Yair Lapid, who must now go back and have a hard think about his next move. Netanyahu is also out of the reach of Labor's Shelly Yachimovich, Meretz, and the Arab parties — in other words, the opposition, which together makes up no more than 25 Knesset mandates. That's not even enough MKs to force Netanyahu to appear at a Knesset hearing to defend his government's policies. Without any real opposition to his government, and without a quarrelsome coalition to worry about, Netanyahu has put himself beyond anyone's reach. He has, in essence, become Israel's king, the supreme leader.

If Netanyahu can keep this coalition government together until October 2013, the date of the next elections, and if he wins those elections and manages to stay in power for a full third term after that, his total rule as prime minister of Israel (counting his first term in the 1990s) would be about 11 and a half years.

And while Obama will fight for four more years, Netanyahu has all but assured himself five and a half more years in power. Netanyahu may be the Israeli prime minister until January 2018.

What effect will the deal have on the burning issues of the day? Netanyahu now leads a centrist government of 94 MKs, a wide and stable coalition. Foreign news organizations can no longer call his government a "narrow right-wing coalition government." As his new coalition partner Mofaz said Tuesday, there is now a golden opportunity to make some deep, historic structural changes to Israeli society and politics. To change the system of government, to address the imbalance in the burden of military and national service, and to attempt a territorial compromise with the Palestinians. No previous Israeli prime minister has managed to do all three, largely because no previous Israeli prime minister has had such a wide coalition, and such potential stability and power. In short, no Israeli prime minister has been a supreme leader before.

The question now is if we will see Netanyahu wield such immense power wisely. Will we finally see Netanyahu's political and diplomatic vision? Will the Palestinians miss another opportunity to make peace, now that their Israeli partner seems to be in a prime position to deliver a deal? Will there be progress on the Palestinian track? Potentially. Polls have consistently shown a majority of Israelis in favor of a peace deal with the Palestinians based on territorial swaps and solid security guarantees. It won't be easy, and the American administration might push harder on Netanyahu now that he has the political depth to make such a deal.

Will Netanyahu change the Tal Law? Netanyahu will want to keep the ultra-Orthodox in the coalition if he can, just in case Mofaz or Lieberman or both play any dirty tricks on him. So he'll have to find a watered-down Tal Law alternative, just strong enough to satisfy the secular middle class, and just weak enough not to break the china with the haredim.

Will we see meaningful and essential changes in the system of government? This is the dream of many people, but this will be very hard to achieve, again because of the ultra-Orthodox parties, who will want to maintain the status quo. But even without Shas and United Torah Judaism, Netanyahu's government will be strong enough to survive and make serious changes.

What about Iran? With or without a wide national unity government, Netanyahu would have made his own decision on whether to attack Iran alone, without American backing or even American knowledge, with Mofaz or without Mofaz. But having Mofaz, a former chief of staff and defense minister at his side, and with Ehud Barak on his other side, Netanyahu will feel more confident about the way forward regarding Iran. While it may make it easier now for the prime minister to strike Iran, he still has to wait out the P5+1 negotiations, currently scheduled for May 23 in Baghdad.



״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline good sam

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2012, 11:41:59 AM »
which website is this from.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2012, 12:00:28 PM »
there was an article on msn also about the new unity gov't

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2012, 12:55:14 PM »
which website is this from.
ישראל היום
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YudiG

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2012, 01:08:05 PM »
it was a very big move on netanyahu part...

Offline AsherO

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2012, 01:05:35 AM »
it was a very big move on netanyahu part...

I really don't understand how Israeli politics works, not sure I want to...
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Offline Side incomer

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »
I really don't understand how Israeli politics works, not sure I want to...
Never too late...
A lot more exciting than the US politics IMO.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2013, 02:41:14 PM »
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4351754,00.html
I don't think they're gonna first notify HaRav Auerbach, when/if they put these bochrim in the slammer..

In any case, loving this, watching how this entertaining show plays out. 
One side yelling about a "g'zeirah" (LMAO) literally like there's some upcoming spiritual holocaust, and the other side threatening to lock up an entire population.

Why can there be no level-headed people (or more importantly, Rabbonim - ולא רע-בנים) in that hot-headed country (on both sides of the debate)?

Embarrassingly, there seems to be more level-headed people willing to sit down and think (instead of just constantly spewing extremist nonsense), on one side, more than the other.  You have these dynamic MK's (or former MK's) from Labor and Kadima who actually agree with a lot of the "Chareidi" stance, IIRC Feiglin also has some interesting opinion there.
Never too late...
A lot more exciting than the US politics IMO.
+1

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »
הרב עובדיה was right. בית של גויים.

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Tal Law annuled . . . Now what?
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2013, 02:45:41 PM »
הרב עובדיה was right. בית של גויים.
Is that really the only way to get a point across?  To sink to such low and disgusting rhetoric?  ::)