Author Topic: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult  (Read 50116 times)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #160 on: March 06, 2012, 08:46:28 PM »
Again, the biyor halacha is about "hair" covering, and the mishnah berurah is about shema. Period. Nooo... Dont worry, I'm not really in to change my lifestyle, just scholarly, and also curious if there's something to shout against a rabbi who says its not a problem at all. So far I don't see any argument against him.
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Offline shach

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #161 on: March 06, 2012, 11:43:32 PM »
Again, the biyor halacha is about "hair" covering, and the mishnah berurah is about shema. Period. Nooo... Dont worry, I'm not really in to change my lifestyle, just scholarly, and also curious if there's something to shout against a rabbi who says its not a problem at all. So far I don't see any argument against him.
K just looked up the texts, see the following  and this should suffice what you are looking for:
כתובות ע"ב. משנה, רש"י וש"ר
  ע"ב: גמ' וטווה בשוק וכו' רש"י תוס' בשם ר"ח, רמב"ם פר' כ"ד הל' י"ב מהל' אישות,שו"ע אה"ע סי' קט"ו סע' ד
enjoy :)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #162 on: March 06, 2012, 11:48:44 PM »
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline shach

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #163 on: March 06, 2012, 11:58:31 PM »
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
מראה זרועותיה is also mentioned there.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #164 on: March 07, 2012, 12:23:39 AM »
correct but I think that is also not a clearly defined term
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Offline sawlw

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #165 on: March 07, 2012, 01:52:26 AM »
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
And rashi there says on the words שוק באישה ערוה'' .......באשת איש'' assuming and not single girls

Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #166 on: March 08, 2012, 01:02:00 PM »
And rashi there says on the words שוק באישה ערוה'' .......באשת איש'' assuming and not single girls
Me'ikar hadin you are right, but today all single girls are bechezkas niddos which is a chiyuv kares.  Therefore it is just as forbidden.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #167 on: March 08, 2012, 01:12:44 PM »
Seems like you never learned Mishna Brurah and Beyer halacha on siman 75 (although the Shi"a referrs to krias shma, the mis"b makes very clear that on the street its never allowed).
Look also in Shi"a ans Noishai Keilim on Aven Haezer siman 15.

The mishna Berura as is the whole siman 75 are talking in regards to the male. The M"B never says anything that resembles what you quoted above.
In regards to Even Haezer 15, there are 32 seifim and about 10 nosei keilim on the sides, which one are you reffering to? I am afraid you don't know because the whole entire siman including all of the nosei keilim that i've seen have absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this issue, rather it's talking about who is an ervah in regards to getting married and having relations.

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
There are deffinitly other issues as well, but this for starters.

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« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 01:19:16 PM by u-no-me- »
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #168 on: March 08, 2012, 01:17:36 PM »
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow

I am not sure who you are quoting, but in regards to what is cosidered ervah, The shulchan Aruch clealy defines it in Even Haezer siman 22 or 23 (don't remember which one right now, Sorry). M'eikar Hadin it is deffinitely not just Shok.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #169 on: March 08, 2012, 01:28:47 PM »
The mishna Berura as is the whole siman 75 are talking in regards to the male. The M"B never says anything that resembles what you quoted above.
In regards to Even Haezer 15, there are 32 seifim and about 10 nosei keilim on the sides, which one are you reffering to? I am afraid you don't know because the whole entire siman including all of the nosei keilim that i've seen have absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this issue, rather it's talking about who is an ervah in regards to getting married and having relations.
Quote

+1
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #170 on: March 08, 2012, 01:47:36 PM »

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
Quote
there's a chaza"l (I don't remember exactly where) which says: "assur l'histakel b'ishah, vaafilu b'etzba ketenah shelah". If she's required to cover herself so the man shouldn't do sin, than why are women not required to cover their fingers?  there isn't any jewish sect (so far) which requires women to cover their fingers. The reason is very understandable: women are not responsible for the men's crazy sexual desires.

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Offline sawlw

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #171 on: March 08, 2012, 01:53:45 PM »

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
Quote
there's a chaza"l (I don't remember exactly where) which says: "assur l'histakel b'ishah, vaafilu b'etzba ketenah shelah". If she's required to cover herself so the man shouldn't do sin, than why are women not required to cover their fingers?  there isn't any jewish sect (so far) which requires women to cover their fingers. The reason is very understandable: women are not responsible for the men's crazy sexual desires.
Etzba ketana I believe is talking about touching ones wife when she's a nida

Offline meshugener

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #172 on: March 08, 2012, 01:55:30 PM »
Hey, youre mistaking. I'm on the road right now, but I'll look it up later and give you the "mekor". Happy purim!
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #173 on: March 22, 2012, 10:47:01 AM »
The full episode is now available.

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Offline Dan

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #174 on: March 22, 2012, 10:47:40 AM »
Isn't the show an hour long (or ~48 minutes accounting for commercials)?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #175 on: March 22, 2012, 10:48:31 AM »
Nah, some are 42, which this is just about.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #176 on: March 22, 2012, 10:49:01 AM »
Isn't the show an hour long (or ~48 minutes accounting for commercials)?
Sometimes they have more than one topic.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #177 on: March 22, 2012, 10:49:38 AM »
Nah, some are 42, which this is just about.
Yup, the 3rd video was added after my post.
But man 20 minutes of commercials in an hour...gotta love DVRs.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #178 on: March 22, 2012, 10:54:26 AM »
Yup, the 3rd video was added after my post.
But man 20 minutes of commercials in an hour...gotta love DVRs.

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Offline mercaz1

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Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
« Reply #179 on: March 22, 2012, 11:44:39 AM »
all in all a major chilul hashem on all peoples parts