Author Topic: Baby dies due to bris  (Read 11801 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2012, 01:05:36 PM »
not everyone believes this is truly necessary.
Obviously I'm asking for those (seemingly mostly chassidim) who do deem it an integral part of the milah.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2012, 01:59:20 PM »
Is there any way to do a test on the mohel before the bris to check if he has any virus?
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Offline elikay

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2012, 11:50:04 PM »
not everyone believes this is truly necessary.
not everyone believes many things are truly necessary ::)

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2012, 10:06:04 AM »
:)
Don't worry, it's just R. Slifkin

*it's just N. Slifkin

it gives me jitters too. Yiddishkeit is not to be held up to our "great rational and enlightened minds" even if we have a BA in zoology. Al yemin shehu smol. We submit ourselves to the gadlus of Toras Hashem and real Talmidei Chachamim. Hashem Yerachem.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2012, 07:19:58 AM »
*it's just N. Slifkin

it gives me jitters too. Yiddishkeit is not to be held up to our "great rational and enlightened minds" even if we have a BA in zoology. Al yemin shehu smol. We submit ourselves to the gadlus of Toras Hashem and real Talmidei Chachamim. Hashem Yerachem.

:)
Not even worth responding.
I'll simply submit myself to the Rabbanim who did give him a haskama b/f they received pressure from Rabbanim in E"Y who aren't familiar with the tzibbur in the US.

Reminds me of what just s/t similar that happened with us recently. My brother in law lives in Beitar Illit, and one of his neighbors left us a stack of old mishpacha and binah magazines since my wife enjoys them. My b-i-l didn't want my sister in law to give them to us due to the recent "ban" against them. In the end, he asked his Rav what to do (imagine that, asking your Rav and not relying on posters hung up ;)) and he said that the ban was for a specific type of community, and that we could receive them.

It's the underlying idea that different communities require different gedarim to keep them on track. And in the US, the rabbanim initially had no problem with the books for this exact reason.

Either way, we could always start a new thread to discuss further.

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2012, 08:05:43 AM »
Quote
I'll simply submit myself to the Rabbanim who did give him a haskama b/f they received pressure from Rabbanim in E"Y who aren't familiar with the tzibbur in the US.

That is what I am talking about, his site is "rationalistjudaism" and from his own site it seems clear that he thinks his own brain is smarter, more enlightened, rational and reliable than the Rabanim who wrote Haskamos for his books. I am sorry for him, I assume he is a nice guy.

Quote
Not even worth responding.
pm sent
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2012, 08:15:19 AM »
pm sent

I responded with a pm. I'll consider the topic closed in the forum unless it's continued by others.

Offline moish

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2012, 08:34:36 AM »
:)
Not even worth responding.
I'll simply submit myself to the Rabbanim who did give him a haskama b/f they received pressure from Rabbanim in E"Y who aren't familiar with the tzibbur in the US.

Reminds me of what just s/t similar that happened with us recently. My brother in law lives in Beitar Illit, and one of his neighbors left us a stack of old mishpacha and binah magazines since my wife enjoys them. My b-i-l didn't want my sister in law to give them to us due to the recent "ban" against them. In the end, he asked his Rav what to do (imagine that, asking your Rav and not relying on posters hung up ;)) and he said that the ban was for a specific type of community, and that we could receive them.

It's the underlying idea that different communities require different gedarim to keep them on track. And in the US, the rabbanim initially had no problem with the books for this exact reason.

Either way, we could always start a new thread to discuss further.
what a joke... comparing kefira to a political disagreement

Offline Expert Flyer

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2012, 12:46:25 PM »
 If there is a posibilty that a infant can be infected with a deadly disease via MBP transfered to the baby from the fluids in the mouth of the Mohel, the very least we can do is make people aware of that possibilty and give them choices. Chamira Sakanta MeiIsura.   
   
Someone made a comparison the the practice of bloodletting. There was a lot of that going on during the days of Chzal and it continued to be considered a medically benefial procedure through most of the 19th century. Chazal even permitted violation of Shabbos if necessary. It was believed that it was a lifesaving medical treatment.   
   
How many Poskim would permit violating Shabbos for bloodletting today? The answer is zero. Not only that I don't think there is a Posek alive today that would permit bloodletting at all even on a weekday.   
   
The Gemarah is clear. the entire purpose of Metzitza is for the health of the baby. They understood the importance pre-empting Sakana. The life of the baby was more important Shabbos. It should certainly be more imprtant than any stigma MBP might get because of informing the public about its possible dangers.

Courtesy to Harry Maryles

Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2012, 02:46:51 PM »
what a joke... comparing kefira to a political disagreement

I'm assuming you read the language on the ban. According to the Rabbanim that (supposedly) signed, it was assur to read them. Not a political disagreement.

Now... if you want to say that in reality, ppl pulled the wool over their eyes to advance their own interests, and used the rabbanim towards that end, well... I can't imagine you would ever admit that the rabbanim could ever be played this way.

But choose, did they pasken it's assur, or did they say it's assur even though it's a simple 'political disagreement'? Seems to be a catch-22

Offline moish

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2012, 04:59:59 PM »
I'm assuming you read the language on the ban. According to the Rabbanim that (supposedly) signed, it was assur to read them. Not a political disagreement.

Now... if you want to say that in reality, ppl pulled the wool over their eyes to advance their own interests, and used the rabbanim towards that end, well... I can't imagine you would ever admit that the rabbanim could ever be played this way.

But choose, did they pasken it's assur, or did they say it's assur even though it's a simple 'political disagreement'? Seems to be a catch-22
call it what you want, but it doesnt come anywhere close to kefira

btw zoo rabbi is no longer orthodox. he created a new category for himself called 'post orthodox'

Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2012, 06:54:39 PM »
Don't know how this topic turned into Slifkin B"RY, But I can tell you his R"Y gave a haskamah on his first book, and will never give a haskamah on a sefer no matter who wrote it, since then. His R"Y holds him to be a kofer as does any frum jew who believes in torah from sinai. He holds himself to be the biggest chuchem around, claims he's going in shitas Harambam and Reb Sahmshon Refoel Hirsh, even though he claims he's from the rationalist camp and that anyone who's from the traditionalist camp is a dimwit and stupid, which i infer to mean everyone besides the Rambam and R' Hirsh. Yes, He has a question if the Ramban is a kofer. Yes he has a question if one should make a birchas hatorah on words of chazal that were refuted by science, (even though science is constantly changing and developing new theories) and even though with his bird brain he dosen't realize that there is tremendous depth and sirei torah in every word of chazal. Who does he repect? Shimon persky a.k.a. Shimon peres, who slifkin was kvelling over that he got to eat lunch with. He has no qualms whatsoever mocking gedolei torah of today and yesteryear.

I can just imagine the slifkinites or better known as the maskilim 100 years ago mocking the Gra which claims the whole milchemes gog umagog wil take a total of 12 minutes. They were probobly sarcasticly saying that everyone will come on their horses and swords stretched out and kill each other. Today it is no laughing matter, with iran building nuclear weapons it is only to easy to understand the Gra (especially in light of the pesikta).
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »
Quote
Don't know how this topic turned into Slifkin

Raboisai, lets not talk about this anymore, please.  :-[ There is a lot I want to say and many of you have what to add but I think it is best we end here.

Lmaan Hashalom and let's make a Kiddush Hashem.

Shkoiach!
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2012, 12:28:14 PM »
Raboisai, lets not talk about this anymore, please.  :-[ There is a lot I want to say and many of you have what to add but I think it is best we end here.

Lmaan Hashalom and let's make a Kiddush Hashem.

Shkoiach!

+1

Offline dwkl

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2012, 01:00:38 PM »
this happened back in september of 2011 but the news only heard about it recently
at a meeting of mohelim over chanuka this issue was discussed and was agreed all mohelim should gargle listerine which would kill all bactires or any oral herpes infection they may be carrying