Author Topic: Baby dies due to bris  (Read 11901 times)

Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2012, 04:48:28 PM »
Riiight... Because the C"C was just like you and me... ::)
Color me confused.
You're right, he's not us. But that makes no difference. I'm talking about what God wants from all of us, no matter our level. Our external actions often influence our inner feelings. And this applies to all of us, from the greatest to the lowest.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2012, 05:09:28 PM »
Color me confused.
You're right, he's not us. But that makes no difference. I'm talking about what God wants from all of us, no matter our level. Our external actions often influence our inner feelings. And this applies to all of us, from the greatest to the lowest.

The greatest don't need to preform actions in order to create an emotional state.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2012, 05:19:31 PM »
See sefer hachinuch mitzvah ?? "ha'adam nifaal l'fee pe'ulosov"
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2012, 05:30:53 PM »
The greatest don't need to preform actions in order to create an emotional state.
Kurbonos according to the chinuch?
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Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2012, 06:01:47 PM »
The greatest don't need to preform actions in order to create an emotional state.
You mean that every gadol is perfect in every single realm. C'mon....
If God thinks that we all need it, I believe we all need it. Just to different extents.

Even in the sanitized gadol 'biographies', there are discussions about areas in which they were weaker and had to struggle in, or invest more time with.

Do you also think that the 'greatest' wouldn't benefit in any which way from musar either? After all, they're already on such a high level, that it wouldn't do anything for them.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 06:06:04 PM by Reuven »

Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2012, 06:43:46 PM »
The culture and continuation of Edom is deffinitly "the west". The kingdom of Edom itself has been destroyed.

Where did you get that, that today's christians are descendants of Yaakov? Christians are made up of many many many goups. I beleive there is a mahrsha in chagigah or taanis (I forget) on the gemora "garmamya shel Edom" that says it's germany. The original christians went begging for followers and brought in many pagan cults, hence december 25th with it's trees etc;.

R' Akiva thought in the beginning that Bar Kochba was moshiach, but soon after realized he deffinitly was not.

Sorry, the gemorra "garmamya shel edom" is found in megilla 6b on top. The gemora explains that if they were able to, they would destroy the whole world. Rashi explains that "garmamya" is a name of a country. R' Yaakov Emden writes that "garmaya" is today's germany. Note: R' Emden lived aprox. 200 years before Hitler YM"S.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2012, 07:34:21 PM »
See sefer hachinuch mitzvah ?? "ha'adam nifaal l'fee pe'ulosov"

I'm not disputing that. I'm replying to a specific statement about the C"C by Reuven.

Kurbonos according to the chinuch?

I don't understand? Are you citing the same source as meshugener?

If G-d thinks that we all need it, I believe we all need it. Just to different extents.


FTFY.

You claim to know what G-d thinks?

Either way, I was addressing what you suggested about the C"C. It's ludicrous (IMHO) to suggest he had to "act out" impatience for Moshiach hoping it would make him feel that way. You equated him to us in that regard, which is just as ludicrous (IMHO).
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2012, 07:40:16 PM »
I don't understand? Are you citing the same source as meshugener?
The Chinuch holds the Kurbnus are intended to sink in yeshiva and avodas hashem by bringing it out to action. IIRC this is also the Ramban's explanation (as opposed to the famous Rambam)
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2012, 07:42:42 PM »
The Chinuch holds the Kurbnus are intended to sink in yeshiva and avodas hashem by bringing it out to action. IIRC this is also the Ramban's explanation (as opposed to the famous Rambam)

I'm going to have to ask you to cite sources, no offense, but your English is incomprehensible.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2012, 07:45:45 PM »
I'm going to have to ask you to cite sources, no offense, but your English is incomprehensible.
I can try to look for it later. The Chinuch explains the reason for the mitzvah of kurbnos is to ingrain teshuva and Yiraas hashem by commiting physical actions.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2012, 08:48:39 PM »
I can try to look for it later. The Chinuch explains the reason for the mitzvah of kurbnos is to ingrain teshuva and Yiraas hashem by commiting physical actions.

Does the chinuch say anything about a Tzaddik? What do you know about Teshuvah for a tzaddik?

Either way, we're discussing the chiyuv to await the redemption, not animal sacrifices.
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2012, 09:10:50 AM »
Reminds me of a good story. I walked into a briskers house; he had 2 zecher lachurbans, one zecher, and one Zeichar.

 ;D ;D ;D
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #87 on: March 15, 2012, 09:21:12 AM »
Does the chinuch say anything about a Tzaddik? What do you know about Teshuvah for a tzaddik?

Either way, we're discussing the chiyuv to await the redemption, not animal sacrifices.
I was just quoting the need bring about machshava by maasim, which applies even to tzadikim. Not discussing this specific case with the C"c. Only point I want to add, without voicing any opinion, is that although the C"C started a kodshim kollel for this reason, he was at the forefront of the fight against the briskers who made kodshim the primary study of all yeshiva buchorim.
;D ;D ;D
The first to laughs I understand ;) but what's the third for?
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2012, 10:26:37 AM »
There is a kuntress from the C"C called "Ikvisa Demishicha" which is a compilation of different letters he wrote about "Ikvisa Demishicha". It seems the Chofetz Chaim held that by davening for moshiach (which we do many times a day) but not being actively ready for moshiach is a contradiction. that is why he was very much into learning kodshim taharos and knowing halacha l'maaseh, he raised money for kodshim taharos kollelim etc; He has a parable where someone invites the king for a royal meal but he does not prepare anything, he says that is true for us, if were really sincere and really believe, we would do necassry preparations.
don't know if the story of the suitcase is real, but if it is, it would have to do with sincerely beleiving in moshiach. There is a story with R' Noson Wachtfogel who always had a suitcase packed in case moshiach comes. Once a bochur blew shofar in the BMG dorm and R' Noson thought it was the shofar of moshiach. That is how real it was to him. He also sent messengers trying to find the Aseres Hashvotim to hasten the coming of moshiach.
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Offline Drago

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Re: Baby dies due to bris
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2012, 10:41:58 AM »
You claim to know what G-d thinks?
No, but I claim to know what He wants of us. It's found in the torah and the mesora (look, I rhymed). And the reasons we're told to do such acts is found either mefurash in the torah, or  in the torah shebaal peh.

Does the chinuch say anything about a Tzaddik?
I didn't realize that tzaddikim had different obligations than us DDF'ers. And if Hashem wants us all to do all the mitzvot, then I'm sure that they can all benefit us in some way, no matter what our spiritual standing is.

Listen, I'm not at all putting down the C'C. All I'm saying is that the purpose of many mitzvot (tzitzis for eg) and minhagim (kippa for eg) is to create a certain feeling in us. And it's possible that the C'C did this for the same reason as well. But for whatever reason he did so, it's still a very high level he's on. Most of us wouldn't think of doing such a thing, either b/c we don't feel it, or b/c we aren't so interested in feeling it.