Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem

[cholent]

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/05/01/revealed-how-much-hilton-reimburses-hotels-when-you-book-awards/

If they're really getting reimbursed $20-30 per night I can't blame them for wanting to block points bookings!

[Yitz]

If they're really getting reimbursed $20-30 per night I can't blame them for wanting to block points bookings!

Very interesting, it sounds to little.

[Dan]

Waldorf are more than that, and Israel is probably higher than china.
But even if it's $75, it's low, but that's the rules they agreed to.

When occupancy is high they would get reimbursed at ADR.

[Denverite]

Wow! Ugh! I had no issue booking a room during this Pesach days before my stay. A real shame.

Yeah a big bummer.  If I would have known, I would have switched stuff around to go ahead and get the rooms we needed.  Hopefully they'll open back up.

[mb1]

Waldorf are more than that, and Israel is probably higher than china.
But even if it's $75, it's low, but that's the rules they agreed to.

When occupancy is high they would get reimbursed at ADR.

So why would they block rewards during peak season?
It seems they lose more when occupancy is low.

[Dan]

So why would they block rewards during peak season?
It seems they lose more when occupancy is low.

I've been emailing the GM and asked that very question this morning.
Perhaps their occupancy is high, but isn't high enough to trigger the ADR payment? Seems to require 90 or 95% depending on the management contract.

[EJB]

I've been emailing the GM and asked that very question this morning.
Perhaps their occupancy is high, but isn't high enough to trigger the ADR payment? Seems to require 90 or 95% depending on the management contract.

Ha!!!

[Emkay]

Ha!!!

whats the joke?

[mb1]

I've been emailing the GM and asked that very question this morning.
Perhaps their occupancy is high, but isn't high enough to trigger the ADR payment? Seems to require 90 or 95% depending on the management contract.

Do the reward bookings count toward that threshold?

[EJB]

whats the joke?

Those are the good contracts

[Denverite]

Except during Sukkot, I don't see how they get close to those occupancy rates Without Redemption bookings.

[Emkay]

Are they allowed to do that?

it would they technically are.

[Dan]

Do the reward bookings count toward that threshold?

Yes.

[AJK]

It makes no sense, and I've asked this question probably a half dozen times with no compelling answer from anyone.

Assuming occupancy of below 90-95%, the hotel doesn’t lose anything by offering rooms as their costs and then some are covered by the loyalty program. Now, assuming occupancy above 90-95%, the hotel gets reimbursed at the ADR or some such other metric, so there they also lose nothing. In fact, they gain considerably.

So what’s the motivation to play these games? Fill up enough of your hotel with awards and all of the sudden each booking is reimbursed at ADR! And even if you don’t succeed, it’s not like the hotel loses.

Put otherwise, if the hotel is operating at or near capacity, it gets reimbursed the average daily rate or some similar amount. So, in that case, they have no incentive to not offer rooms for awards.

If the hotel is NOT operating at or near capacity, they have excess rooms that will simply go vacant for the night. In that case, what’s the incentive not to offer award rooms? The variable costs?

Further, if the hotel is operating at say 60% capacity, and they release the remaining 40% inventory for awards, it’s very likely, given how popular this hotel is, that the rooms will fill up, taking the hotel passed the magical line between “basically no money” and “ADR” for all awards. (Unless it’s only ADR for those awards booked past that magical line, but even then…)

[mochjas]

It makes no sense, and I've asked this question probably a half dozen times with no compelling answer from anyone.

Assuming occupancy of below 90-95%, the hotel doesn’t lose anything by offering rooms as their costs and then some are covered by the loyalty program. Now, assuming occupancy above 90-95%, the hotel gets reimbursed at the ADR or some such other metric, so there they also lose nothing. In fact, they gain considerably.

So what’s the motivation to play these games? Fill up enough of your hotel with awards and all of the sudden each booking is reimbursed at ADR! And even if you don’t succeed, it’s not like the hotel loses.

Put otherwise, if the hotel is operating at or near capacity, it gets reimbursed the average daily rate or some similar amount. So, in that case, they have no incentive to not offer rooms for awards.

If the hotel is NOT operating at or near capacity, they have excess rooms that will simply go vacant for the night. In that case, what’s the incentive not to offer award rooms? The variable costs?

Further, if the hotel is operating at say 60% capacity, and they release the remaining 40% inventory for awards, it’s very likely, given how popular this hotel is, that the rooms will fill up, taking the hotel passed the magical line between “basically no money” and “ADR” for all awards. (Unless it’s only ADR for those awards booked past that magical line, but even then…)

well said. But who says for sure that award bookings get them to the 90 % occupancy threshold. I don't think that it should count bec Hilton can tell the hotel. These rooms would have been empty and we are filling it up for you so we only want to pay the lower rate.

Either way if they have extra rooms they benefit greatly by letting people book with points and stay at the hotel, as they do not make money only from the room. Guests will likely eat at the hotel as well.

And if they ever open the SPA they can make money off that as well even if customers are staying on points.

[jj1000]

It makes no sense, and I've asked this question probably a half dozen times with no compelling answer from anyone.

Assuming occupancy of below 90-95%, the hotel doesn’t lose anything by offering rooms as their costs and then some are covered by the loyalty program. Now, assuming occupancy above 90-95%, the hotel gets reimbursed at the ADR or some such other metric, so there they also lose nothing. In fact, they gain considerably.

So what’s the motivation to play these games? Fill up enough of your hotel with awards and all of the sudden each booking is reimbursed at ADR! And even if you don’t succeed, it’s not like the hotel loses.

Put otherwise, if the hotel is operating at or near capacity, it gets reimbursed the average daily rate or some similar amount. So, in that case, they have no incentive to not offer rooms for awards.

If the hotel is NOT operating at or near capacity, they have excess rooms that will simply go vacant for the night. In that case, what’s the incentive not to offer award rooms? The variable costs?

Further, if the hotel is operating at say 60% capacity, and they release the remaining 40% inventory for awards, it’s very likely, given how popular this hotel is, that the rooms will fill up, taking the hotel passed the magical line between “basically no money” and “ADR” for all awards. (Unless it’s only ADR for those awards booked past that magical line, but even then…)

Does a hotel make money on $50/night? Aren't cleaning help often paid per room? And amenities. I wound't be surprised if it's a break even. And if they are a gold member the hotel probably loses money on breakfast...

[cholent]

Does a hotel make money on $50/night? Aren't cleaning help often paid per room? And amenities. I wound't be surprised if it's a break even. And if they are a gold member the hotel probably loses money on breakfast...

Took the words out of my mouth. Those rates don't even appear break even when including free breakfast

[Denverite]

Does a hotel make money on $50/night? Aren't cleaning help often paid per room? And amenities. I wound't be surprised if it's a break even. And if they are a gold member the hotel probably loses money on breakfast...

Maybe but a lot of people spend on other things.  Especially if it's over Shabbos or Yom Tov they get all that meal revenue.  If we go for Pesach it will be almost 2k just for one Seder and a private room for the meal.

[EJB]

Also if 10% of ppl decide to pay $500 instead because there's no points availability, the calculus changes. Even if 5% do this, it will impact the hotels decision

[jj1000]

Also if 10% of ppl decide to pay $500 instead because there's no points availability, the calculus changes. Even if 5% do this, it will impact the hotels decision

Great point.

There you have it AJK after 6 times of asking you have an answer.