Topic Wiki

http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/88534

Breakfast:
Paying guests get breakfast for free. If you are staying on points you need to be gold or diamond to get free breakfast. (source)

Parking:
Complimentary (No longer, is now 60sh for self park - Drago)

Shuls Nearby:
Great Synagogue - Approx. 7 minute walk
Kotel around 15min walk thru the mall & arab Shuk (Only suggested when soldiers are present like friday night on the way home)
Hotel has a Shul in the basement

Hechsher: Plain Rabbanut Yerushayim (not mehadrin)
hechsherim in isreal
whatever your rabbi says you can eat, someone else's rabbi says is treif

If anyone is planing on staying at Waldorf and not eating the free breakfast (Hechsher, Early flight, etc') please PM shimino1

If you get free drinks vouchers and don't use them, I'll buy it off you for 10 shek per voucher.
PM shimino1

If anyone is planing on staying at Waldorf and not eating the free breakfast please PM dragoddfer, and he may be able to pay for the breakfast.

« Last edited by Drago on December 20, 2021, 03:09:28 PM »

Author Topic: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem  (Read 832144 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14503
  • Total likes: 2229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5180 on: July 29, 2021, 12:50:41 PM »
I know but who is the one who they know to be reliable? Regarding R Nafcha (I am not sure why he is being referred to a "Rav" and haven't seen anything leading me to that title or that he is a talmid chochom at all, but maybe that is just that I haven't seen it. Either way that is not a requirement for someone to be a competent and reliable mashgiach anyhow)

I am not sure what is the unknown here? R' Nafcha is at the very least a learned ben torah. What his precise qualifications and CV are I have no idea, nor do I know what the threshold that you require to be called Rov is. In Israel generally anybody who learns and wears a white shirt is referred to as R'.

I was personally told by R Efrati that I can trust R' Nafcha. We all know from R' Elyashiv ZTL that R' Efrati is reliable. I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner hence to me, R' Nafcha whom I do know is more reliable. Others know from the Reichmann family who owned the hotel and the new owners who bought that Nafcha is directed to maintain a Mehadrin standard and trust their judgement of Nafcha.

Either way, according to posters above Rabbi Weiner knows nothing about the WAJ other than his guess about Nafcha's character and capabilities.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline gross5g

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2016
  • Posts: 453
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5181 on: July 29, 2021, 12:55:19 PM »
I am not sure what is the unknown here? R' Nafcha is at the very least a learned ben torah. What his precise qualifications and CV are I have no idea, nor do I know what the threshold that you require to be called Rov is. In Israel generally anybody who learns and wears a white shirt is referred to as R'.

I was personally told by R Efrati that I can trust R' Nafcha. We all know from R' Elyashiv ZTL that R' Efrati is reliable. I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner hence to me, R' Nafcha whom I do know is more reliable. Others know from the Reichmann family who owned the hotel and the new owners who bought that Nafcha is directed to maintain a Mehadrin standard and trust their judgement of Nafcha.

Either way, according to posters above Rabbi Weiner knows nothing about the WAJ other than his guess about Nafcha's character and capabilities.
Rabbi Weiner had many meetings with owners who said they have no say in food and beverage department as it's contracted out.

The best they can do is mention it to them.

There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin and a few years back when reichmans owned it  the milk company Tara was agudas yisroel most rabbanim here considered it chalav akum at best and no where near a mehadrin standard

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14503
  • Total likes: 2229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5182 on: July 29, 2021, 12:57:48 PM »
Rabbi Weiner had many meetings with owners who said they have no say in food and beverage department as it's contracted out.

The best they can do is mention it to them.

There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin and a few years back when reichmans owned it  the milk company Tara was agudas yisroel most rabbanim here considered it chalav akum at best and no where near a mehadrin standard

You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14503
  • Total likes: 2229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5183 on: July 29, 2021, 12:59:20 PM »
There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin

If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline gross5g

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2016
  • Posts: 453
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5184 on: July 29, 2021, 01:03:55 PM »
You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.

Your absurd for thinking bc something is heimishe or chassidush its good , would you lend a chesidesh heimishe your points and miles bc he says trust me??

they are a joke of a chechsher when tara dropped them t go to eida they put out sighs against tara saying they dont listen to any rules and they dropped tara and nobody should buy from them . thats laughable that a company couldnt keep to aguda  but within a week all of a sudden goes eida.


Offline gross5g

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2016
  • Posts: 453
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5185 on: July 29, 2021, 01:05:20 PM »
If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?

trust rabbi sally for all i care i have said many times ask your lor who knows whats going on

I and many others have had many bad dealings with the guy and therefore not very trustworthy

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14291
  • Total likes: 9527
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5186 on: July 29, 2021, 01:43:40 PM »
If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?
Trust who you want.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shiframeir

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1579
  • Total likes: 87
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Programs: spg gold. nothing else. sigh.
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5187 on: July 29, 2021, 01:57:59 PM »

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12776
  • Total likes: 4715
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5188 on: July 29, 2021, 01:59:10 PM »
Triangle K I don't believe (unless it's something that doesn't need a hechsher). Chassam Sofer is obviously a Mehadrin hechsher and there is no reason they shouldn't be relying on it.

Without going into specific names (those that know the story, know it) there are two other Hechsherim in Israel that are ostensibly "Mehadrin" (my position on that term is no secret) who certified cheese manufactured in Poland as CY, where a Rabbanut supervisor wrote up a review of the operation, and came up with very serious issues - even beyond the CY issue, which simply could not be true based on the number of mashgichim, distances to travel, etc. etc.

The צד השווה of the so-called "Mehadrin" hechsherim that leave a lot to be desired is that they are run (shots called) by business people, rather than by Rabbonim.

As @aygart rightfully said

Trust who you want.

But if you really care about what goes into your mouth, do some research, as unfortunately, the reality of the world of the Hechshrim business in today's day and age is מרע חזקתיה.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 861
  • Total likes: 339
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5189 on: July 29, 2021, 05:48:16 PM »
trust rabbi sally for all i care i have said many times ask your lor who knows whats going on

I and many others have had many bad dealings with the guy and therefore not very trustworthy
And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you canít seem to accept that, Iím not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then youíre literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

Offline yfr bachur

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 240
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerusholayim
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5190 on: July 29, 2021, 06:16:50 PM »
You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.

I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.

And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you canít seem to accept that, Iím not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then youíre literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

While I can speak for all the posters on this thread, I am operating on the assumption that all the posters on the thread are telling the truth about what they know about the WA, and all truly want to see the "controversy" around the WA cleared up and all able to eat in the WA confidently.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 06:26:00 PM by yfr bachur »

Offline Happyguy

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 652
  • Total likes: 553
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5191 on: July 29, 2021, 06:27:38 PM »
I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.
There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14503
  • Total likes: 2229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5192 on: July 29, 2021, 06:33:46 PM »
I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin

Let me guess, you donít know anybody who eats at the Waldorf either? 

Sheyan & Take A Wok are Aguda and full to the brim with frum heimeshe people (though miraculously none of them people you know).

Aguda is a perfectly fine hechsher. Donít believe every rumor some competitor told you. IINM the Tara milk in question was under Westheim as well.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14503
  • Total likes: 2229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5193 on: July 29, 2021, 06:35:04 PM »
There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.
Take a wok.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Happyguy

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 652
  • Total likes: 553
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5194 on: July 29, 2021, 06:37:11 PM »
I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.
The main criteria for some in those areas is how Heimish the owners are even if the Hashgacha isn't, hence the amount of pop-up Thursday night stores who sell cholent and Shabbos takeout food without a Hechsher. If the owners were a certain type, it might have been more viable. I personally don't eat Aguda btw.

Offline yfr bachur

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 240
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerusholayim
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5195 on: July 29, 2021, 06:39:41 PM »
There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.

True, I forgot about that. and I do know people who eat in the WA.

The main criteria for some in those areas is how Heimish the owners are even if the Hashgacha isn't, hence the amount of pop-up Thursday night stores who sell cholent and Shabbos takeout food without a Hechsher.

I happen to have a problem with that attitude too, but that's for a different thread

Online Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 861
  • Total likes: 339
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5196 on: July 29, 2021, 06:48:08 PM »

While I can speak for all the posters on this thread, I am operating on the assumption that all the posters on the thread are telling the truth about what they know about the WA, and all truly want to see the "controversy" around the WA cleared up and all able to eat in the WA confidently.

I am not sure how this has anything to do with what I said.

Offline yfr bachur

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 240
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerusholayim
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5197 on: July 29, 2021, 06:52:40 PM »
And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you canít seem to accept that, Iím not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then youíre literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

Online Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 861
  • Total likes: 339
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5198 on: July 29, 2021, 07:08:14 PM »

He is insinuating that [mention]PlatinumGuy [/mention] is lying about his asking of and relying on Reb Efrati.

Offline yfr bachur

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 240
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerusholayim
Re: Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5199 on: July 29, 2021, 07:13:37 PM »
I do not think that @PlatinumGuy is lying