Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem

[PlatinumGuy]

I know but who is the one who they know to be reliable? Regarding R Nafcha (I am not sure why he is being referred to a "Rav" and haven't seen anything leading me to that title or that he is a talmid chochom at all, but maybe that is just that I haven't seen it. Either way that is not a requirement for someone to be a competent and reliable mashgiach anyhow)

I am not sure what is the unknown here? R' Nafcha is at the very least a learned ben torah. What his precise qualifications and CV are I have no idea, nor do I know what the threshold that you require to be called Rov is. In Israel generally anybody who learns and wears a white shirt is referred to as R'.

I was personally told by R Efrati that I can trust R' Nafcha. We all know from R' Elyashiv ZTL that R' Efrati is reliable. I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner hence to me, R' Nafcha whom I do know is more reliable. Others know from the Reichmann family who owned the hotel and the new owners who bought that Nafcha is directed to maintain a Mehadrin standard and trust their judgement of Nafcha.

Either way, according to posters above Rabbi Weiner knows nothing about the WAJ other than his guess about Nafcha's character and capabilities.

[gross5g]

I am not sure what is the unknown here? R' Nafcha is at the very least a learned ben torah. What his precise qualifications and CV are I have no idea, nor do I know what the threshold that you require to be called Rov is. In Israel generally anybody who learns and wears a white shirt is referred to as R'.

I was personally told by R Efrati that I can trust R' Nafcha. We all know from R' Elyashiv ZTL that R' Efrati is reliable. I know nothing about Rabbi Weiner hence to me, R' Nafcha whom I do know is more reliable. Others know from the Reichmann family who owned the hotel and the new owners who bought that Nafcha is directed to maintain a Mehadrin standard and trust their judgement of Nafcha.

Either way, according to posters above Rabbi Weiner knows nothing about the WAJ other than his guess about Nafcha's character and capabilities.

Rabbi Weiner had many meetings with owners who said they have no say in food and beverage department as it's contracted out.

The best they can do is mention it to them.

There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin and a few years back when reichmans owned it  the milk company Tara was agudas yisroel most rabbanim here considered it chalav akum at best and no where near a mehadrin standard

[PlatinumGuy]

Rabbi Weiner had many meetings with owners who said they have no say in food and beverage department as it's contracted out.

The best they can do is mention it to them.

There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin and a few years back when reichmans owned it  the milk company Tara was agudas yisroel most rabbanim here considered it chalav akum at best and no where near a mehadrin standard

You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.

[PlatinumGuy]

There was never anything of the sort that made the place mehadrin

If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?

[gross5g]

You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.

Your absurd for thinking bc something is heimishe or chassidush its good , would you lend a chesidesh heimishe your points and miles bc he says trust me??

they are a joke of a chechsher when tara dropped them t go to eida they put out sighs against tara saying they dont listen to any rules and they dropped tara and nobody should buy from them . thats laughable that a company couldnt keep to aguda  but within a week all of a sudden goes eida.

[gross5g]

If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?

trust rabbi sally for all i care i have said many times ask your lor who knows whats going on

I and many others have had many bad dealings with the guy and therefore not very trustworthy

[aygart]

If Rabbi Weiner said a place was Mehadrin, would you consider it Mehadrin?

Why can't you understand I trust R' Nafcha just like you trust Rabbi Weiner?

Trust who you want.

[shiframeir]

trust rabbi sally for all i care

I actually trust rabbi Mischel https://www.ou.org/torahny/speakers/rabbi-judah-mischel/

[ExGingi]

Triangle K I don't believe (unless it's something that doesn't need a hechsher). Chassam Sofer is obviously a Mehadrin hechsher and there is no reason they shouldn't be relying on it.

Without going into specific names (those that know the story, know it) there are two other Hechsherim in Israel that are ostensibly "Mehadrin" (my position on that term is no secret) who certified cheese manufactured in Poland as CY, where a Rabbanut supervisor wrote up a review of the operation, and came up with very serious issues - even beyond the CY issue, which simply could not be true based on the number of mashgichim, distances to travel, etc. etc.

The צד השווה of the so-called "Mehadrin" hechsherim that leave a lot to be desired is that they are run (shots called) by business people, rather than by Rabbonim.

As @aygart rightfully said

Trust who you want.

But if you really care about what goes into your mouth, do some research, as unfortunately, the reality of the world of the Hechshrim business in today's day and age is מרע חזקתיה.

[Afrages6]

trust rabbi sally for all i care i have said many times ask your lor who knows whats going on

I and many others have had many bad dealings with the guy and therefore not very trustworthy

And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you can’t seem to accept that, I’m not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then you’re literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

[yfr bachur]

You're again setting absurd standards. Aguda is a heimishe chasidishe hashgocha which most people consider Mehadrin.

I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.

And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you can’t seem to accept that, I’m not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then you’re literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

While I can speak for all the posters on this thread, I am operating on the assumption that all the posters on the thread are telling the truth about what they know about the WA, and all truly want to see the "controversy" around the WA cleared up and all able to eat in the WA confidently.

[Happyguy]

I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.

There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.

[PlatinumGuy]

I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin

Let me guess, you don’t know anybody who eats at the Waldorf either? 

Sheyan & Take A Wok are Aguda and full to the brim with frum heimeshe people (though miraculously none of them people you know).

Aguda is a perfectly fine hechsher. Don’t believe every rumor some competitor told you. IINM the Tara milk in question was under Westheim as well.

[PlatinumGuy]

There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.

Take a wok.

[Happyguy]

I don't know anyone who eats Aguda, forget about it being Mehadrin. The was a bakery in Kaduri (corner of shamgar/yirmiyahu, near Gur and Belz) that was Aguda, it lasted a few short months, (The only bakery in central Chareidi JLM that has closed in the last ten years! ttbomk) I do not know of any other Aguda establishments in Chareidi areas in JLM.

The main criteria for some in those areas is how Heimish the owners are even if the Hashgacha isn't, hence the amount of pop-up Thursday night stores who sell cholent and Shabbos takeout food without a Hechsher. If the owners were a certain type, it might have been more viable. I personally don't eat Aguda btw.

[yfr bachur]

There is a fleishig restaurant behind Tachana Merkazit on Rechov Sarei Yisrael (next to Katzefet and My Pizza) - I don't know what it's called, which is under Aguda. The shops/restaurants there are catering to the Charedi pubic.

True, I forgot about that. and I do know people who eat in the WA.

The main criteria for some in those areas is how Heimish the owners are even if the Hashgacha isn't, hence the amount of pop-up Thursday night stores who sell cholent and Shabbos takeout food without a Hechsher.

I happen to have a problem with that attitude too, but that's for a different thread

[Afrages6]

While I can speak for all the posters on this thread, I am operating on the assumption that all the posters on the thread are telling the truth about what they know about the WA, and all truly want to see the "controversy" around the WA cleared up and all able to eat in the WA confidently.

I am not sure how this has anything to do with what I said.

[yfr bachur]

And he said that he asked Reb efrati and you can’t seem to accept that, I’m not sure what else you want.. if you think he is lying about asking Reb efrati then why engage, if you still disagree then you’re literally going in circles trying to fight against him and yourself.

[Afrages6]

He is insinuating that [mention]PlatinumGuy [/mention] is lying about his asking of and relying on Reb Efrati.

[yfr bachur]

I do not think that @PlatinumGuy is lying