Author Topic: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...  (Read 10640 times)

Offline txtmax4

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Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« on: March 22, 2012, 02:55:25 PM »
My brother noticed a check withdrawal for $2,200 out of his Apple Bank checking account. He never uses his checks so he went to check the place where he usually stores them and they were missing (he suspects someone who works in his house)..
To make the long story short, Apple Bank is giving him a hard time and not being helpful at all, needles to say he locked the account but not before the thieves attempted to cash a 2nd check for the same amount, ironically, the bank is even giving him a hard time removing the returned check fees.
The bank has compared the signatures and they even agree that its a forgery but wont do anything further until a form is filled out and notarized (I will include the form below), they also include an affidavit which he has to send back. They are treating this as a PITA and being very half-hearted about it all..
IMO many questions in the forms are intended to make him say the wrong thing and so Apple can absolve themselves from any responsibility.
The question is: Is there any other way he can get his money back or is he forced to go down this route and let Apple decide whatever they want? (look at items 5 and 6 on the affidavit). If he signs that affidavit he will be at their mercy... Can he claim his funds any other way?
Below is a copy of the form and affidavit:


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Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2012, 03:04:58 PM »
Given the many different ways people could try to scam a bank regarding a forged check, the questions on the questionnaire seem in order.

Most important is HOW the questions are answered -- the questions themselves are reasonable to assist the bank in investigating the forgery (which is a serious crime).

If your brother is out the $2,200 -- that's what he should be looking to get back.  Once Apple refunds it, I would assume he has no further claim anyway -- so question #5 should not bother you.  But at the same time, the last question on the questionnaire asks if you are willing to sign an affidavit -- it doesn't say it has to be THEIR form of affidavit.

I do have a problem with Question #6 -- what if this event uncovers some big fraud someone was committing -- and that gets prosecuted and goes to trial.  According to #6, your brother can be forced to waste lots of time in court testifying.... and by that point, it's not his problem anymore as Apple has long ago refinded the $, and he waived further rights.

Perhaps he should complete the questionnaire and hold off on the affidavit --  and slightly modify the sections of the affidavit that are objectionable.  They shoud be OK with that (although finding the right "THEY" will be the challenge -- someone in Apple's legal dept).

Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2012, 03:08:26 PM »

I do have a problem with Question #6 -- what if this event uncovers some big fraud someone was committing -- and that gets prosecuted and goes to trial.  According to #6, your brother can be forced to waste lots of time in court testifying.... and by that point, it's not his problem anymore as Apple has long ago refinded the $, and he waived further rights.

Perhaps he should complete the questionnaire and hold off on the affidavit --  and slightly modify the sections of the affidavit that are objectionable.  They shoud be OK with that (although finding the right "THEY" will be the challenge -- someone in Apple's legal dept).

Looking at it again, the only thing I would insist on changing is #6 of the Affidavit -- from "fully cooperate" to "cooperate as reasonably required" -- strike out the word "fully" and add  "as reasonably required" after the word "cooperate"

Offline txtmax4

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2012, 03:09:06 PM »
Given the many different ways people could try to scam a bank regarding a forged check, the questions on the questionnaire seem in order.

Most important is HOW the questions are answered -- the questions themselves are reasonable to assist the bank in investigating the forgery (which is a serious crime).

If your brother is out the $2,200 -- that's what he should be looking to get back.  Once Apple refunds it, I would assume he has no further claim anyway -- so question #5 should not bother you.  But at the same time, the last question on the questionnaire asks if you are willing to sign an affidavit -- it doesn't say it has to be THEIR form of affidavit.

I do have a problem with Question #6 -- what if this event uncovers some big fraud someone was committing -- and that gets prosecuted and goes to trial.  According to #6, your brother can be forced to waste lots of time in court testifying.... and by that point, it's not his problem anymore as Apple has long ago refinded the $, and he waived further rights.

Perhaps he should complete the questionnaire and hold off on the affidavit --  and slightly modify the sections of the affidavit that are objectionable.  They shoud be OK with that (although finding the right "THEY" will be the challenge -- someone in Apple's legal dept).
Thanks, very articulate.
Do you think he can choose to say that he doesn't want to sign an affidavit altogether? Or will they just cancel his claim if he doesn't sign one?
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2012, 03:10:12 PM »
Whaat type of bank are they?

(After their name, does it say "N.A." or "F.S.B." Etc. )

Offline txtmax4

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2012, 03:14:58 PM »
Whaat type of bank are they?

(After their name, does it say "N.A." or "F.S.B." Etc. )
Where would I be able to find that out?
They call themselves "Apple Bank For Savings", does that help?
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2012, 03:22:41 PM »
Where would I be able to find that out?
They call themselves "Apple Bank For Savings", does that help?

You can try the OTC at 18008426929.

They are a government entity that deals with these type of things. If they can't help you they will at least guide you to the division that deals with your situation/your bank.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2012, 03:31:59 PM »
My experience with banks is that if you change the forms in any way they will not accept them. I wish you luck.
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Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2012, 03:43:22 PM »
Thanks, very articulate.
Do you think he can choose to say that he doesn't want to sign an affidavit altogether? Or will they just cancel his claim if he doesn't sign one?

The affidavit would be required -- it's doing two critical things...1) it is the form where he is swearing that it wasn't him who signed the check and isn't benefiting in any way from the money withdrawn, and 2) it is the form the bank can use when they bring charges against whoever committed the crime.  The way it should work, once the bank has the affidavit, they can use it in court against the real criminal, and your brother doesn't have to go to court as they have a "sworn affidavit" from him.

Offline txtmax4

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2012, 03:48:13 PM »
The affidavit would be required -- it's doing two critical things...1) it is the form where he is swearing that it wasn't him who signed the check and isn't benefiting in any way from the money withdrawn, and 2) it is the form the bank can use when they bring charges against whoever committed the crime.  The way it should work, once the bank has the affidavit, they can use it in court against the real criminal, and your brother doesn't have to go to court as they have a "sworn affidavit" from him.
So I don't understand... He can be forced to go to court like you wrote a few posts above or doesn't have to go to court as they have a "sworn affidavit" from him?
By the way.. before we go further, I'd like to clarify that my brother lives outside of the country and will be notarizing the affidavit in Argentina, albeit with an international notarization, whatever that means..
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Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 04:06:14 PM »
So I don't understand... He can be forced to go to court like you wrote a few posts above or doesn't have to go to court as they have a "sworn affidavit" from him?
By the way.. before we go further, I'd like to clarify that my brother lives outside of the country and will be notarizing the affidavit in Argentina, albeit with an international notarization, whatever that means..

By signing "fully cooperate" -- that CAN include having to go to court.  Doesn't mean he WILL be asked to go.  Fully cooperate may mean signing additional papers or affidavits down the road.  If the same person forged checks from 20 diff people, Apple will use the 20 affidavits as part of the proceeding.  The "crime" was officially committed against your brother -- his name was forged, and funds were withdrawn from his account.  And by getting the money back from Apple now, it becomes their problem to litigate and look for prosecution (as they are now out the $).

I have no idea how his being in Argentina will or will not affect anything....there is an equivalent to a notary public there.  Good luck. 

Offline meshugener

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 04:07:56 PM »
Whaat type of bank are they?

(After their name, does it say "N.A." or "F.S.B." Etc. )
why should that make any difference?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2012, 04:12:57 PM »
May determine if regulated by OCC.
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Offline Side incomer

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 04:16:23 PM »
So I don't understand... He can be forced to go to court like you wrote a few posts above or doesn't have to go to court as they have a "sworn affidavit" from him?
By the way.. before we go further, I'd like to clarify that my brother lives outside of the country and will be notarizing the affidavit in Argentina, albeit with an international notarization, whatever that means..
Usually they wouldn't need him to come down in court. Unless for some reason the criminal's lawyers troughs a tantrum about it that this letter is not legit, then the judge might ask to bring him down. and the bank doesn't want to stay foolish in that case, not being able to bring him down.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 04:24:55 PM by Side incomer »
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Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 04:18:00 PM »
Apple Bank is a NYS chartered savings bank, and is an FDIC member

Offline David B

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 04:19:00 PM »

2. Why don't you have him notarize this here in the states? Any Jewish notarizer that know your brother personally would sign it for you.

Probably not a good idea to fight fraud with fraud  :)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 04:21:46 PM »
@SideIncomer point #2 should rather be advised by PM or remove the religion...
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2012, 04:23:00 PM »
@SideIncomer point #2 should rather be advised by PM or remove the religion...
#2 should not be advised at all.
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Offline Side incomer

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2012, 04:26:36 PM »
#2 should not be advised at all.
@SideIncomer point #2 should rather be advised by PM or remove the religion...
I didn't mean anything. I didn't know that it's considered fraud. I meant to say, that someone who knows him personally wouldn't give you a hard time. But if it's fraud then you're right "nobody would do it".
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Offline Side incomer

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Re: Stolen and Cashed Check.. Bank is not Helping Either...
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2012, 04:33:17 PM »
And BTW, seems that this could be the solution:

http://argentina.usembassy.gov/other-services.html
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