Author Topic: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court  (Read 16666 times)

Offline meshugener

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Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« on: March 26, 2012, 06:42:58 PM »
As today was the first of 3 days of arguments regarding president Obama's Health Care Reform Act, there is a basic question weather the individual mandate is a tax or a penalty. It could make a difference on today's topic weather the court can rule on the law before the law is fully in effect, so if its a tax they'll have to wait till '14 or '15, and on tomorrow's topic weather the mandate fell under Congress's authority to imposs taxes.   What do you think? My first thought is that the purpose of the individual mandate is that everyone should have health insurance so there'll be more ppl in the pool, and not that ppl should pay the fine for not being covered. Thus, it is a penalty for not fulfilling your obligation, not a tax which is made for the purpose of revenue for the govt.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 08:24:42 AM »
Smoke screen!
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 12:01:00 PM »
Today's arguments: The constitutionality of the individual mandate. There are 2 arguments in favor: 1 congress has a power to regulate commerce, so as of today, the were in a crisis in terms of covering our health costs, so congress may regulate it. 2 congress jurisdiction to imposs taxes. The opponents side: #1 congress can only regulate commerce on someone in the commerce line but not fine someone for being "inactive" in commerce; #2 the law is not a tax, its a requirement to buy insurance, and if you don't have you should pay a penalty. But the supporters say its a tax and you can avoid the tax by buying insurance. Your thoughts? On #1 I can't decide, but on #2 I believe its not a tax since its not created for revenue (although, the language in the law is "tax" and it will be claimed by the IRS along with the annual taxes).
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 02:10:51 PM »
Situation looks very bad for Obama. Most believe the mandate will be struck down. #LuckyIHaveMedicaid
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 02:24:32 PM »
News flash: Obama has health care!
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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 02:35:34 PM »
??
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 04:45:22 PM »
This whole thing is a gelechter.  Our "impartial" and "independent" justices are all going to decide this case on party lines like they always do. Scary how Justice Kennedy is running this country.
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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 04:54:56 PM »
This whole thing is a gelechter.  Our "impartial" and "independent" justices are all going to decide this case on party lines like they always do. Scary how Justice Kennedy is running this country.
::)
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Offline AJK

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 04:57:11 PM »
This whole thing is a gelechter.  Our "impartial" and "independent" justices are all going to decide this case on party lines like they always do. Scary how Justice Kennedy is running this country.

Being unbiased, contrary to your implicit assertion, does not mean Judges and Justices are to make their rulings devoid of experience, background, and perspective.

Just because said experience, background, and perspective happen to align with a particular party does not mean a Judge or Justice decide the cases in accordance with that party.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 05:08:49 PM »
Being unbiased, contrary to your implicit assertion, does not mean Judges and Justices are to make their rulings devoid of experience, background, and perspective.

Just because said experience, background, and perspective happen to align with a particular party does not mean a Judge or Justice decide the cases in accordance with that party.
You are wrong. 

That said, they consistently do so in high profile cases.  They make the law fit into their politics.  Remember Bush v. Gore? It is a fact that no matter what the legal question is, Sotomayor will never, ever, vote to invalidate Obamacare, just as sure as Alito will vote against it.  It's an uncomfortable fact we have to live with. 
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Offline AJK

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 05:18:08 PM »
You are wrong.

Well, now that we got that out of the way  ::) 

Quote
That said, they consistently do so in high profile cases.  They make the law fit into their politics.  Remember Bush v. Gore? It is a fact that no matter what the legal question is, Sotomayor will never, ever, vote to invalidate Obamacare, just as sure as Alito will vote against it.  It's an uncomfortable fact we have to live with.

So what you're saying is that if you were a Supreme Court Justice, you'd make your decisions completely devoid of any Jewish influence, conscious or unconscious, right?

Please.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 05:23:35 PM »
Well, now that we got that out of the way  ::) 

So what you're saying is that if you were a Supreme Court Justice, you'd make your decisions completely devoid of any Jewish influence, conscious or unconscious, right?

Please.
I can't control the unconscious, but I definitely would not do so consciously.  If my religion required this of me, I would not become a Justice of the Supreme Court.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 05:28:11 PM »
I can't control the unconscious, but I definitely would not do so consciously.  If my religion required this of me, I would not become a Justice of the Supreme Court.

Great, so according to you, anyone with any exposure to religion, indeed anyone with any exposure to pretty much anything cannot become a Supreme Court Justice because... they'd be biased. I wonder what color the grass is in your utopian village.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 05:34:48 PM »
Great, so according to you, anyone with any exposure to religion, indeed anyone with any exposure to pretty much anything cannot become a Supreme Court Justice because... they'd be biased. I wonder what color the grass is in your utopian village.
Huh? 

Maybe this example will help:  If you are Catholic, you are likely anti-gay marriage, and you would likely support a ban on gay marriage.  If you are a Supreme Court Justice, however, you are required to put these feelings aside and decide based on the law as best you can (as I said, you can't control the subconscious).  You can uphold a ban on gay marriage because you don't believe in substantive due process, but you should not be against substantive due process be you are against gay marriage.   

Edit: that should read substantive. Fixed it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 05:46:49 PM by good sam »
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 05:48:47 PM »
The whole case was in first place a question only on what Justices Kennedy will decide, we all knew from the beginning what the other 8 justices will rule. Now, after todays hearing it seems clear that Kennedy is leaning towards the conservative side.
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