Author Topic: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court  (Read 16289 times)

Offline RJ898

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #165 on: July 04, 2012, 12:10:33 PM »
There was nothing brilliant in that ruling. It is a gross abuse of power and nothing more.
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #166 on: July 04, 2012, 12:20:10 PM »
There was nothing brilliant in that ruling. It is a gross abuse of power and nothing more.

Read the article I linked to. You may not change your mind about the gross abuse of power part, but you probably will about the brilliant part.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #167 on: July 04, 2012, 12:48:29 PM »
Funny how the conservatives are all for socialism (spread the costs of the uninsured over to all the people) and the liberals defending and requiring self-responsibility, everyone should pay their own medical expenses (individual mandate).
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #168 on: July 04, 2012, 01:47:57 PM »
Read the article I linked to. You may not change your mind about the gross abuse of power part, but you probably will about the brilliant part.
The article you linked to was a nice read but nothing more.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #169 on: July 04, 2012, 02:02:23 PM »
The article you linked to was a nice read but nothing more.

First, a correction, Dan linked to the article. I've been telling people to read it often enough that I thought it was my link for a second.

good sam used the term brilliance about Roberts' ruling, which is a description that RJ took issue with. It seemed from his comment that RJ had not read the article upon which good sam was basing his opinion. I'm not saying that the Atlantic article has for sure divined Roberts' intentions in the ruling, or even that the 'plan' will lead to the desired result in the upcoming elections and beyond. All I'm saying is that if all this turns out to be true, we won't be able to deny Roberts' brilliance, even he displayed a gross abuse of power.

Now, having explained myself, maybe you can explain yourself. What exactly are you trying to say?

Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #170 on: July 04, 2012, 02:13:28 PM »
Funny how the conservatives are all for socialism (spread the costs of the uninsured over to all the people) and the liberals defending and requiring self-responsibility, everyone should pay their own medical expenses (individual mandate).
Huh? Cost spreading through natural market forces is the opposite of socialism.  The individual mandate forces healthy people to pay for sick people.  That is socialism.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #171 on: July 04, 2012, 02:55:17 PM »
When people have the option not to purchase health insurance, so when they get sick and can't afford to pay for it, but still get needed care, and as a result I pay higher insurance premiums, that's socialism.
When the individual mandate requires everyone to buy health insurance, so everyone pays their own medical costs and don't spread the burden on others, that's capitalism.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #172 on: July 04, 2012, 03:22:50 PM »
Now, having explained myself, maybe you can explain yourself. What exactly are you trying to say?
Everyone seems to have a reason why Roberts did what he did. This article is no different. I enjoyed reading it as much as any other well reasoned speculative article. To me that is all it is, nothing more.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #173 on: July 04, 2012, 03:24:30 PM »
When people have the option not to purchase health insurance, so when they get sick and can't afford to pay for it, but still get needed care, and as a result I pay higher insurance premiums, that's socialism.
No it's not
When the individual mandate requires everyone to buy health insurance, so everyone pays their own medical costs and don't spread the burden on others, that's capitalism.
No it's not

But in any event, that is not the effect of the individual mandate.  People who can afford to buy insurance have to pay for their medical care.  Hospitals are not required to provide free care to those who can afford it.  The ones who are driving up our premiums are illegals and those who are too poor to pay for insurance.  And guess what--those people are not subject to the individual mandate.  And the one's with high enough income to be subject to the mandate will still qualify for public insurance which is funded by taxpayers.

Under whose definition is this capitalism?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #174 on: July 04, 2012, 03:41:06 PM »
You said "Hospitals are not
required to provide free care to
those who can afford it."
I don't have what to argue with you anymore.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #175 on: July 04, 2012, 03:43:36 PM »
Romney, in Shift, Says Health Care Mandate Is a Tax

Given his Massachusetts background, he needs to tread carefully in how he leverages this against Obama.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #176 on: July 04, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »
I don't take his words as his opinion, he just said that if the court said it a tax than its a tax. Its more like 'obey the court'.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #177 on: July 04, 2012, 03:49:44 PM »
You said "Hospitals are not
required to provide free care to
those who can afford it."
I don't have what to argue with you anymore.
I'm not sure what you mean but I think you misunderstood me.  By law, hospitals are not required to provide free care and therefore they don't.  When an uninsured who can afford to pay goes to the emergency room, he gets billed.  So those who are affected by the individual mandate, i.e. those who can afford insurance but choose not to purchase it, are not the ones who are driving up health costs.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #178 on: July 04, 2012, 03:56:30 PM »
Very 'lomdiesh' but bad math: the one who can afford to pay $300-$400 a month for premiums, can't afford $40,000 once he get injured or a broken leg.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #179 on: July 04, 2012, 03:58:39 PM »
Someone on CNN had a good idea.

Don't buy health insurance, pay the 'tax' (a lot cheaper than insurance). If you get sick and need medical care, buy insurance then - they will need to take you even though you have pre-existing conditions!!!!