Author Topic: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court  (Read 16151 times)

Online AJK

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2012, 12:41:00 PM »
I honestly can't figure out your position.  My original point was that the Justices should not, but often do, decide cases based on their political affiliation.  Do you disagree with this? I don't see how you can.

All that Rule from the MCJC says that is that, despite whether the Judge approves or disapproves of a particular law, he must interpret and apply it. Noticeably lacking in that rule (for your purposes anyway) is a requirement regarding how the Judge is to interpret and apply it. Seemingly contrary to what you're suggesting, he or she can do so taking into account his or her experience, perspective and perception, whether or not those traits align with a certain political stripe or not.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 01:00:41 PM »
Todays session: hypothetical: if the mandate will be struck down, would the entire health care reform act go along? Why yes? Why not? No legal argument on that issue, only economical argument that the its not financially bearable for insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions patients at the same time when the healthy ones aren't required to pay into the pool. No legal experts here to give an opinion?
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 01:20:21 PM »
Todays session: hypothetical: if the mandate will be struck down, would the entire health care reform act go along? Why yes? Why not? No legal argument on that issue, only economical argument that the its not financially bearable for insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions patients at the same time when the healthy ones aren't required to pay into the pool. No legal experts here to give an opinion?
AJK?
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 01:34:43 PM »
From MSNBC: I've bolded and underlined two sections...

Brace yourself for another 5-4 decision: Yesterday’s oral arguments at the Supreme Court raised the distinct possibility that the individual mandate -- and perhaps the entire health-care law -- could be decided by another controversial 5-4 decision. Such an outcome, especially after other 5-4 decisions like Bush vs. Gore and Citizens United, would have two potential consequences. One, it would feed the perception that the U.S. Supreme Court is as partisan as Congress and increasing parts of the media; in other words, these nine justices (either trained at liberal law schools or members of the conservative Federalist Society) are essentially political actors wearing black robes. And two and most importantly, a 5-4 decision would satisfy no one. If the court strikes down the mandate and the health-care law by that narrow margin, liberals and Democrats would blame it on the conservative justices. If the mandate and law are upheld by a 5-4 decision, conservatives would point their fingers at the liberals and the unpredictable “mushy” swing justice, Anthony Kennedy. That’s the problem with a split decision: The losers would feel like they lost on a political technicality, not because there was a legal consensus.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 01:38:15 PM »
From MSNBC: I've bolded and underlined two sections...

Brace yourself for another 5-4 decision: Yesterday’s oral arguments at the Supreme Court raised the distinct possibility that the individual mandate -- and perhaps the entire health-care law -- could be decided by another controversial 5-4 decision. Such an outcome, especially after other 5-4 decisions like Bush vs. Gore and Citizens United, would have two potential consequences. One, it would feed the perception that the U.S. Supreme Court is as partisan as Congress and increasing parts of the media; in other words, these nine justices (either trained at liberal law schools or members of the conservative Federalist Society) are essentially political actors wearing black robes. And two and most importantly, a 5-4 decision would satisfy no one. If the court strikes down the mandate and the health-care law by that narrow margin, liberals and Democrats would blame it on the conservative justices. If the mandate and law are upheld by a 5-4 decision, conservatives would point their fingers at the liberals and the unpredictable “mushy” swing justice, Anthony Kennedy. That’s the problem with a split decision: The losers would feel like they lost on a political technicality, not because there was a legal consensus.
This is why they should never disclose the vote total.
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Online AJK

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 02:40:46 PM »
AJK?

Though I appreciate the vote of confidence, I am in no way, shape, or form a legal expert.

That said, just because one aspect of a law is struck down does not compel the remaining pieces to be struck down as well. The reason the arguments have focused solely on the economics is because that is the major issue. Can ACA survive without the mandate? Many believe (me included) that the answer to that is no. The mandate is the third leg of an already wobbly chair. Kick it out, and the thing falls over.

The losers would feel like they lost on a political technicality, not because there was a legal consensus

Who cares what the losers feel? All that is needed is a majority, the definition of which is five votes. That means a consensus. A legal consensus. Five or more people feel that the law dictates a certain outcome. Period.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2012, 11:29:24 PM »
Obama on the fate of the law:

"Ultimately, I'm confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress"

"So there's not only an economic element to this and a legal element to this, but there's a human element to this. I hope that's not forgotten in this political debate."

Is this guy from another planet?  What does a (strong?) majority have to do with the Constitution?  What if the majority of Congress felt we should have segregated schools?!  And should the Justices really consider the "human" element in this "political debate?"  This guy is off his rocker!
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2012, 11:32:34 PM »
...and to think he taught con law at chicago.
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Offline bubkiz

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2012, 11:47:37 PM »
Obama on the fate of the law:

"Ultimately, I'm confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress"
Excuse my ignorance, but has the court never yet struck down a law passed by Congress?

Offline Ergel

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2012, 11:49:27 PM »
And who cares that it was democratically elected? The third Reich was also originally democratically elected (not saying they are like them, just making a point)
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2012, 12:21:32 AM »
Is this guy from another planet?  What does a (strong?) majority have to do with the Constitution?  What if the majority of Congress felt we should have segregated schools?!  And should the Justices really consider the "human" element in this "political debate?"  This guy is off his rocker!
He is doing what he should be doing.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2012, 08:36:02 AM »
He's just expressing his hopes (which I strongly share) in politician-style lexicon. Nothing funny.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2012, 09:01:51 AM »
As pointed out today in WSJ article he is the first president to do something like this and I find it inappropriate
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Offline mercaz1

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2012, 09:02:38 AM »
Scalia is going to be near my work today. wonder if he will talk about this case at all

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2012, 09:12:15 AM »
Rubashkin filed a petition to the supreme court to review his case.
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