Author Topic: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court  (Read 28555 times)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2012, 03:43:36 PM »
The mandate itself (not taking in account all other parts of the law) has no cost for people already covered by insurance (and it'll only reduce the premiums), and for people who don't have, its the service they'll end up paying anyway, the government is just requiring to pay them in advance for the benefit of 'we as a nation'.
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Offline RJ898

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2012, 03:53:07 PM »
It'll put the insurance companies out of business! And just how will it reduce premiums??
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2012, 03:58:51 PM »
Can you explain me how it'll get the insurance companies out of business while there will be more premium payers?
The more people that pay into the pool, the less the cost per person.
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Offline RJ898

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #123 on: June 28, 2012, 04:04:21 PM »
No one can compete with the government. They don't have to worry about things like profit. The companies going out of biz is inevitable.
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #124 on: June 28, 2012, 04:06:33 PM »
Again you say a simple lie:
The individual mandate is not that the government is running the Healthcare system.
I won't repeat it again.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #125 on: June 28, 2012, 04:07:08 PM »
From Twitter:
 I'm going to write off my parking tickets as deductions, since they're apparently a tax....
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Offline RJ898

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #126 on: June 28, 2012, 04:09:40 PM »
Again you say a simple lie:
The individual mandate is not that the government is running the Healthcare system.
I won't repeat it again.
Say it till you're blue in the face. Think for 5 min and realize it inevitably leads to single payer.
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #127 on: June 28, 2012, 04:20:25 PM »
I think that the pre existing condition inclusion of the act is the one that will do the most damage. Now people just have to pay the tax/penalty and not get insurance and then just get insurance when they need it. This will lead to insurance bankruptcies
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Offline mercaz1

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #128 on: June 28, 2012, 04:48:37 PM »
the worst part is when business lay off people because they wont be able to afford healthcare for their employees

Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #129 on: June 28, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
I find myself (oddly) on the side of meshugener here.  The mandate REDUCES the rates of insurance premiums because the insurance companies will no longer have to shift the cost of providing care to the uninsured onto the insured.  As for the preexisting condition requirement, the damage is only in the short term because by 2016, everyone will have to have insurance from birth anyway. 

The damaging sections of the bill are the arduous coverage requirements placed on insurers and the expansion of medicaid.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline RJ898

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #130 on: June 28, 2012, 05:10:52 PM »
I find myself (oddly) on the side of meshugener here.  The mandate REDUCES the rates of insurance premiums because the insurance companies will no longer have to shift the cost of providing care to the uninsured onto the insured.  As for the preexisting condition requirement, the damage is only in the short term because by 2016, everyone will have to have insurance from birth anyway. 

The damaging sections of the bill are the arduous coverage requirements placed on insurers and the expansion of medicaid.
You can't just say: pay! and expect people to pay. The insurance companies will be hit with expenses they can't handle and shut down. That will lead to single payer which will lead to government run healthcare.
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM »
As for the preexisting condition requirement, the damage is only in the short term because by 2016, everyone will have to have insurance from birth anyway. 
Unless they pay the tax/penalty
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline RJ898

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Re: Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2012, 06:30:44 PM »
Unless they pay the tax/penalty
Which will be raised once everyone is on single payer.
Part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Offline good sam

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2012, 09:23:48 PM »
The funny thing about this ruling is that it was essentially a daas yochid.  4 justices didn't think it was a tax, 4 justices probably didn't even consider whether is was a tax.  Roberts alone decided it was a tax, and his sole opinion will affect all cases under the taxing power going forward.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline zale

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2012, 11:20:59 PM »
Wow! What a surprise!
Thank you Justice Roberts!
And thank you Mr. Bush for appointing him to the court....

Meshugener, you are clearly a meshugener.

I want to lay out a few facts for you:

  • I, the tax paying citizen am not required to pay for your medical costs, just as much as I am not required to pay for your shampoo and underwear. YOU need to find a way to pay for it, and if you can't, then get a better job, go to a Gemach, or go beg in the streets. I don't have to work my butt off to pay for your colonoscopy. (But as a Jew, if you asked me for Tzedaka, I would gladly give you) Medicaid is already insane, and this is even crazier.
  • Yes, the healthcare system is screwed up big time, but the way to fix it is NOT to tax the middle-class and the struggling small businesses. Rather, the root of the problem is incredibly ridiculous lawsuits against doctors and phamaceutical companies, which force the doc's to charge insane amounts of money for short visits, in order to keep up with their insane physician's insurance. If Obama wants to solve this crisis, he should regulate these lawsuits to bring down the costs, not TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE IT TO YOU!
  • Did you say that you are now covered under your father's insurance? Well, who is going to pay for that?

What Obama did now was simple: take money from people who work, and give it to people who either don't work, or make very little.

Offline zale

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2012, 11:29:44 PM »
Democrats say: Sheli Shelcha, v'Shelcha Sheli.

Republicans say: Sheli Sheli, v'Shelcha Shelcha.

Adapted from OU.org:

The Dor HaHaflaga, the Generation of the Dispersal, was punished because it couldn't distinguish between the individual and the community. They said, "Sheli shelcha v'shelcha sheli," "What is mine is yours and what is yours is mine." The denial of the concept of individual property is the attitude, according to the Mishna, of the "am ha'aretz," the "proletariat." They had unity of a kind, but it was the mindless anti-human unity illustrated by the Midrash which says that the laborers on the Tower of Bavel were more disturbed by the loss of a brick than the loss of a human being. Theirs was the unity of the totalitarian State; in order for humanity to progress, they had to be dispersed.

The citizens of Sodom and Amorah had the attitude of "Sheli sheli v'shelcha shelcha," "What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours." Now there is an opinion in the Mishna that this is a "midah beinonit," a "reasonable attitude," and indeed much of Seder Nezikin is concerned with the protection of individual property rights. But these people went to a terrible extreme. They set up a rigid distinction between the "I" and the "Thou," such that any attempt to reach out and assist the "other" brought forth condemnation and murderous outrage from the Sodomite and Amorites.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #136 on: June 28, 2012, 11:52:00 PM »
The individual mandate is not that you should pay my bills, its the opposite: you should pay your own bills. Thr only way to make sure you pay your own medical expenses and you don't show up at the hospital already sick without any way to pay for your care (which have to be done no matter your financial abilities at that time) is to have you pay for it in advance. That's all.
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Offline zale

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #137 on: June 28, 2012, 11:56:09 PM »
The individual mandate is not that you should pay my bills, its the opposite: you should pay your own bills. Thr only way to make sure you pay your own medical expenses and you don't show up at the hospital already sick without any way to pay for your care (which have to be done no matter your financial abilities at that time) is to have you pay for it in advance. That's all.

You didn't answer my question. Who is paying for your extended stay on your father's insurance?

Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #138 on: June 29, 2012, 12:13:07 AM »
My love to the law is because of the mandate and pre existing condition rule.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Health Care Reform In The Supreme Court
« Reply #139 on: June 29, 2012, 12:14:57 AM »
Justice Ginsburg wrote: "Although an individual might buy a
car or a crown of broccoli one day,
there is no certainty she will ever do
so, And if
she eventually wants a car or has a
craving for broccoli, she will be
obliged to pay at the counter before
receiving the vehicle or nourishment.
She will get no free ride or food, at
the expense of another consumer
forced to pay an inflated price."
Short and clear, my point.
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