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« Last edited by Hirshthg on July 27, 2017, 06:38:47 PM »

Author Topic: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?  (Read 81513 times)

Offline cozmohoot

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #120 on: September 07, 2014, 10:18:31 PM »
Give it a few more days. Was it a handwritten one or scanned?

Offline googwallet

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #121 on: September 08, 2014, 08:16:38 AM »
Give it a few more days. Was it a handwritten one or scanned?
Handwritten.

Offline cozmohoot

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #122 on: September 08, 2014, 10:26:44 AM »
Handwritten.
That can take longer. But check by ticket number not just license plate, maybe there's a mistake and you can be off the hook

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2014, 05:35:24 PM »
Got a munimeter ticket in Brooklyn. Here's my appeal (note: my car is greenish bluish, and is registered as green).

Your statement as to why you believe the violation should be dismissed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My car, with this license plate, is not a blue Honda. The ticketing agent must have been confused and put the ticket on the wrong car after writing it out, hence the incorrect car description.

I'll easily lose, and pay it. But at least I'll have registered my annoyance that they don't allow plea bargaining anymore.

Offline MeirS

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2014, 09:34:16 PM »
Got a munimeter ticket in Brooklyn. Here's my appeal (note: my car is greenish bluish, and is registered as green).

Your statement as to why you believe the violation should be dismissed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My car, with this license plate, is not a blue Honda. The ticketing agent must have been confused and put the ticket on the wrong car after writing it out, hence the incorrect car description.

I'll easily lose, and pay it. But at least I'll have registered my annoyance that they don't allow plea bargaining anymore.
I went to court with that appeal for an alternate side ticket and they said color doesn't make a difference.

Sorry

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2014, 10:24:44 PM »
I went to court with that appeal for an alternate side ticket and they said color doesn't make a difference.

Sorry

I figured that, which is why I davka suggested that the agent had actually put the ticket on the wrong car. It still won't win.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2014, 10:38:35 PM »
could be worse.

I had a hydrant ticket that said 50ft away from 150th and it was not possible for me to be next to a hydrant since there is no hydrant 50ft away from said street, which I proved.

their response:
Quote
Respondents claim of being parked far enough away from the hydrant is not persuasive because it does not establish that respondent was not in violation of hydrant regulations.

By this logic I could take a picture and they could claim it doesn't prove anything since I could have move the car.

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2014, 10:46:00 PM »
could be worse.

I had a hydrant ticket that said 50ft away from 150th and it was not possible for me to be next to a hydrant since there is no hydrant 50ft away from said street, which I proved.

their response:
By this logic I could take a picture and they could claim it doesn't prove anything since I could have move the car.

I seem to recall your telling me that story.

That seems like the type of situation you would eventually win on appeal by explaining it well.

I would have explained it by showing that the hydrant is 90 feet from 150th, thus you were 40 feet away from the hydrant. In other words,  accept their (incorrect) premise and show how fallacy.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2014, 10:59:22 PM »
I seem to recall your telling me that story.

That seems like the type of situation you would eventually win on appeal by explaining it well.

I would have explained it by showing that the hydrant is 90 feet from 150th, thus you were 40 feet away from the hydrant. In other words,  accept their (incorrect) premise and show how fallacy.

I think I did tell it somewhere b4 or maybe in person.

I thought about appealing, but how to win against an argument that states I didn't prove that I personally was not in violation as opposed to the ticket being wrong. Isn't that impossible.

I'm guessing its too late to appeal. decision was in dec of 2013

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2014, 11:26:31 PM »
I think I did tell it somewhere b4 or maybe in person.

I thought about appealing, but how to win against an argument that states I didn't prove that I personally was not in violation as opposed to the ticket being wrong. Isn't that impossible.

I'm guessing its too late to appeal. decision was in dec of 2013

Yah I'm guessing it's too late to appeal. It's ok. You were guilty after all. And tickets are just the price of parking in NY.

Reminds me of a hashgacha pratis story from last week.

I made my bris on Friday in Queens (sorry for not posting beforehand--Q274 and YOSEF were in attendance as well as my family members on ddf, so it vadai was a DO).  Everybody knows that there is no parking on Friday in Kew Gardens Hills since there is alternate side on the hydrant side, and Queens doesn't have the double parking minhag.  So after the bris I drive my baby and wife to my sister's house to rest, and I decide I will park on the wrong side because I would easily pay 45 dollars for parking under the circumstances.  We drive up to the building, and there was a legal spot right in front of the door!

Offline ilherman

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2014, 11:28:11 PM »


That seems like the type of situation you would eventually win on appeal by explaining it well.


Quote
Respondents claim of being parked far enough away from the hydrant is not persuasive because it does not establish that respondent was not in violation of hydrant regulations.

It seems that you still don't know who you are dealing with. They won't be shy to just repeat

Quote
Respondents claim of being parked far enough away from the hydrant is not persuasive because it does not establish that respondent was not in violation of hydrant regulations.

As I said, the Dep Of Finance does not look to hire judges who know law, rather judges who promise to find guilty 97% of the people.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline 3yummyboys

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #131 on: November 12, 2014, 12:00:04 PM »
It can be luck of the draw depending on the judge assigned to the case

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #132 on: November 12, 2014, 03:52:32 PM »
Got a munimeter ticket in Brooklyn. Here's my appeal (note: my car is greenish bluish, and is registered as green).

Your statement as to why you believe the violation should be dismissed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My car, with this license plate, is not a blue Honda. The ticketing agent must have been confused and put the ticket on the wrong car after writing it out, hence the incorrect car description.

I'll easily lose, and pay it. But at least I'll have registered my annoyance that they don't allow plea bargaining anymore.
next time you get a munimeter ticket, just go to the car behind yours & snap a pic of his munimeter receipt & send it in,

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #133 on: November 12, 2014, 11:37:25 PM »
I seem to have also gotten a school zone speeding camera ticket during my adventures in NY. I was hoping it would have been on the way to the hospital, but it wasn't.

Here's my response. I give it a 5% chance.
Quote
This ticket should be dismissed because there is insufficient evidence supporting conviction.

The statute states: " (b) If the city  of  New  York  establishes  a  demonstration  program pursuant  to  subdivision  (a)  of  this section, the owner of a vehicle shall be liable for a penalty imposed pursuant to this section  if  such vehicle  was  used or operated with the permission of the owner, express or implied, within a school speed zone..." Section 1180-b(b). 

The pictures taken by the camera do not evidence who was driving my car, nor that it was being used with either my express or implied permission.  Thus, the elements required for conviction are not proven, or indeed even alleged.

Second, and in the alternative, there is not even an allegation that this incident was within " one thousand  three  hundred  twenty  feet  on  a  highway  passing a school building, entrance or exit of a school abutting on the highway," as required by the statute in the definition of "school speed zone."  Thus a second element required for conviction is not proven or even alleged.

For the above two reasons, I respectfully request dismissal.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #134 on: November 13, 2014, 01:01:07 AM »
Im starting to think you get all these tickets just for the joy of working on a defense.

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2014, 01:45:22 AM »

Im starting to think you get all these tickets just for the joy of working on a defense.
+1
& btwt that 5% chance of succeeding is overly generous

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2014, 07:56:26 AM »
+1
& btwt that 5% chance of succeeding is overly generous

Perhaps.  But it really is an outrage that you NYers put up with this. You have this tribunal that is supposed to review parking tickets, but does nothing but rubber stamp them.

Maybe my argument with them not putting the state and zip code was a bit loony, but this one is very good--how can they assess a ticket without knowing if I'm culpable under the law for giving permission to the driver? Is there some New York State caselaw that says the driver of a car is assumed to have implied permission unless the car is reported stolen?--unlikely.

And I have seen much better arguments simply rubber stamped, where the city really had nothing to stand on.  For example I once saw where someone got an alternate side ticket for a time when alternate side was not in effect at that address. They wrote that in, and got back the stock answer  that they were unconvincing and that the ticket had all the proper elements.

If that was happening in my city, we'd be grabbing our torches and pitchforks and "to the City Hall!" 

ETA: So the statute is very long, and eventually says this:
Quote
2. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, no owner of  a
  vehicle  shall  be  subject  to a monetary fine imposed pursuant to this
  section if the operator of  such  vehicle  was  operating  such  vehicle
  without the consent of the owner at the time such operator operated such
  vehicle in violation of subdivision (b), (c), (d), (f) or (g) of section
  eleven  hundred eighty of this article. For purposes of this subdivision
  there shall be a presumption that  the  operator  of  such  vehicle  was
  operating such vehicle with the consent of the owner at the time of such
  operator  operated  such  vehicle  in violation of subdivision (b), (c),
  (d), (f) or (g) of section eleven hundred eighty of this article.
 
I'm not even sure how to read this: so is that a rebuttable presumption at least? Or does it undermine the whole rule?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 08:07:02 AM by henche »

Offline kangarruu

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #137 on: November 13, 2014, 09:27:52 AM »
Quote
ETA: So the statute is very long, and eventually says this:   
I'm not even sure how to read this: so is that a rebuttable presumption at least? Or does it undermine the whole rule?

It's a rebuttable presumption. The burden is on the owner to prove that the vehicle was being driven without permission.

Offline henche

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #138 on: November 21, 2014, 09:10:10 AM »
Ok, so I lost this one, but my chances go up to 30 percent on appeal.

See, I had asked which achool was nearby. The one they provided is .6 miles away which I seem to recall is too far. Meanwhile, google maps shows there is a public school a block away...

And of course the ruling is in terrible grammar and almost not understandable.

Offline kangarruu

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Re: How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?
« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2014, 09:15:12 AM »
Ok, so I lost this one, but my chances go up to 30 percent on appeal.

See, I had asked which achool was nearby. The one they provided is .6 miles away which I seem to recall is too far. Meanwhile, google maps shows there is a public school a block away...

And of course the ruling is in terrible grammar and almost not understandable.

Post it here?