Utah Master Thread

[aarony]

For lower antelope canyon there are two companies out of the same parking lot.  They alternate entry.  The tours are exactly the same.  There is also an entry fee to get into the parking lot which is on Navajo land.

[mimb]

For lower antelope canyon there are two companies out of the same parking lot.  They alternate entry.  The tours are exactly the same.  There is also an entry fee to get into the parking lot which is on Navajo land.

Is there a big difference between upper and lower? Upper has the 'beams of light' but I don't think much else. Which one is narrower?

[aarony]

I haven’t done upper. We enjoyed lower very much.  Lots of cool pictures and you don’t need to worry about what time of day you go.  I believe the beams of light on the upper canyon can only be captured during certain times of day. 

The lower canyon is wide at times and narrow at times as is typical of slot canyons.

 I believe that you can’t go wrong with either one just do whichever is convenient . 

[mimb]

Should i buy the annual pass for the national park service for $80? Looks like Bryce itself costs $35 if I'm reading it correctly and I assume Zion and Grand Canyon have their own large fees as well.

[Dawie]

Should i buy the annual pass for the national park service for $80? Looks like Bryce itself costs $35 if I'm reading it correctly and I assume Zion and Grand Canyon have their own large fees as well.

yes the $80 pass covers Bryce, Grand Canyon, Zion, Lake Powell and any other NP
Alternatively you can pack a 4th grader in your suitcase and get it for free

[SSLPhD]

Re Antelope Canyon:  Upper is totally flat, IIRC. Lower, I think has ladders.  Upper can get jam packed, and later guides can get nasty, hurrying you out.  Lower has fewer tours, should be more relaxed, but I haven't done Lower.  @PBaruch mentions doing both in his TR, maybe he can compare for your.

Also, this isn't Utah-related.

[Dawie]

Re Antelope Canyon:  Upper is totally flat, IIRC. Lower, I think has ladders.  Upper can get jam packed, and later guides can get nasty, hurrying you out.  Lower has fewer tours, should be more relaxed, but I haven't done Lower.  @PBaruch mentions doing both in his TR, maybe he can compare for your.

Also, this isn't Utah-related.

close enough, Cell phones ping off UTAH towers making the phone show Utah time in Page. Not uncommon to have two phones showing different times
IIRC, Upper is more "famous" and popular because of the light but that is only at its best in late morning tours, Lower has ladders but really only in the beginning and end. Lower seemed like the best all around experience

[mimb]

Thank you all for your invaluable help. Will hopefully post a TR after to share the knowledge. Per your suggestions, I checked the grand canyon weather and looks like snow is coming so North Rim will be closed. I understand South Rim stays open but don't think I want to go if it's going to be so cold; so looking for an activity for Thursday now. Current itinerary:
1) Sunday: Zion hiking, sleep in Springdale
2) Monday: Zion hiking, sleep in Kanab
3) Tuesday: Bryce hiking, sleep in Page
4) Wednesday: Horseshoe bend, lower antelope hike, lake powel? Need to book a place still
5) Thursday: TBD- could still do South Rim but think it will be too cold, flight out of LAS at 11:30 PM

[aarony]

bryce can get pretty cold too!
Page at this time of year is fairly inexpensive.  the newer chain hotels are all fine.
don't rule out grand canyon just because it is cold, you can decide that last minute.  after zion, bryce and page you probably won't be interested in any of the beautiful but "less spectacular" hikes that dot the region.  if you decide to skip the grand canyon, just double back and head to las vegas through st george.  You can squeeze in some relaxation time...

by the way...  If you are near kanab you can also try for the same day Wave lottery which is an experience in of itself...google the info and call them if you have questions.

[mimb]

bryce can get pretty cold too!
Page at this time of year is fairly inexpensive.  the newer chain hotels are all fine.
don't rule out grand canyon just because it is cold, you can decide that last minute.  after zion, bryce and page you probably won't be interested in any of the beautiful but "less spectacular" hikes that dot the region.  if you decide to skip the grand canyon, just double back and head to las vegas through st george.  You can squeeze in some relaxation time...

by the way...  If you are near kanab you can also try for the same day Wave lottery which is an experience in of itself...google the info and call them if you have questions.

Yeah a friend mentioned the same thing, the lottery drawing is at 830 AM so it conflicts with my Antelope tour. Haven't made a hotel reservation yet, would it be crazy to spend another night in Page? Not sure how much there is to do in Lake Powell this time of year but might just take the last day easy. Wife thinks we should check out Vegas but I'm not that interested for this trip

[aarony]

Don’t stress over it.  You can decide last minute and that.

[gsquared]

i just did something similar last week- Mid Nov. Beautiful weather - t-shirt day time in both bryce and zion. Sunday by the time i had rented the car and driven to Springdale and rented my narrows gear it was late. Monday morning hiked the Narrows, Afternoon hiked Angels Landing. Overnite in Springdale. Tues morning hiked canyon overlook trail and continued on to Bryce. I drove to Rainbow Point and did the short hike there.  I then drove back did the lookouts and hiked Navaho trail. Overnite in Bryce.  On Wed did part of the Faryland trail and hiked at Red Canyon. I then drove around the top of Zion past Cedar Breaks and went back to Zion through the Kolob entrance and hiked the timber creek overlook.  Overnite St George. Thurs morning - short hike in St George and then drove back to LAS.  Great trip, good weather, not too crowded especially at the less popular spots.  No problem getting parking anywhere. 

[mimb]

i just did something similar last week- Mid Nov. Beautiful weather - t-shirt day time in both bryce and zion. Sunday by the time i had rented the car and driven to Springdale and rented my narrows gear it was late. Monday morning hiked the Narrows, Afternoon hiked Angels Landing. Overnite in Springdale. Tues morning hiked canyon overlook trail and continued on to Bryce. I drove to Rainbow Point and did the short hike there.  I then drove back did the lookouts and hiked Navaho trail. Overnite in Bryce.  On Wed did part of the Faryland trail and hiked at Red Canyon. I then drove around the top of Zion past Cedar Breaks and went back to Zion through the Kolob entrance and hiked the timber creek overlook.  Overnite St George. Thurs morning - short hike in St George and then drove back to LAS.  Great trip, good weather, not too crowded especially at the less popular spots.  No problem getting parking anywhere.

Lucky, looks like it's going to be in the 40s next week with some snow Wed-Thurs. You were able to hike the Narrows in this weather? figured it would be too cold

[gsquared]

i did the Narrows hike and it was fine. I rented the pants, shoes, pole, neoprene(2 pairs) socks from Zion Guru. I also wore smartwool long underwear.

[mimb]

Thanks again for all your help, especially @aarony and @Traveler718. It was a jam packed trip but one of the most memorable ones I've done and there's still so much left to be seen in that part of the country. Wanted to list a mini TR below to help others that may be thinking of a similar trip. We went during Thanksgiving week so it was pretty cold in some of the parks and required modifications to the original itinerary. Also highly suggest hiking boots as they were invaluable and protected my feet from the wear and tear. Found a cheap pair on Amazon for like $40 a few days before we flew out.

-Saturday night: flight from JFK-LAS on Jetblue. Used Chase CSR points to book. Drove 2 hours to St. George and stayed at Hyatt Place St. George. Pretty nice accommodations and room size. Breakfast was fine the next morning. Didn't get in till pretty late so slept in a little Sunday morning.

-Sunday: drove to Zion. Parking lot fills up pretty early we learned so can be difficult if you drive in after 10AM. Got the annual national parks pass for $80 which will save you some money if you're visiting the other NP in the area. Hiked the lower emerald pools, Pa'rus trail, and riverside walk. Stayed at Springhill Suites Springdale right next to Zion (40k points). Fairly new hotel and the surrounding scenery is breathtaking. Soaking in the hot tub after a long day was phenomenal.

-Monday: decided we would try the infamous Angels Landing early AM to beat the crowds. Very strenuous hike but feels great when you make it to the top. We didn't originally think it would be possible but after seeing everyone in their waterproof gear, we really wanted to hike the Narrows. With rain in the forecast we rushed to Zion Outfitters and quickly rented some gear ($40 pp) despite them telling us it wouldn't be the best weather and flash floods can happen unpredictably. Yes, we were crazy but it was one of those once in a lifetime opportunities so we felt we had to do it. Took the long bus ride all the way to the top and started hiking thru the river. The water level was very high in some parts (coming up to my waist) but the waterproof gear worked like a charm and although our feet got wet, they magically didn't get cold! We loved hiking thru the river and although the rain cut our hike short it was really unforgettable. With the rapidly changing weather in the park, we got treated to a rainbow which was a nice ending to the day. Started the 1.5 hour drive to Kanab to stay at the Holiday Inn Express Kanab (5k CSR points).

-Tuesday: drove from Kanab to Bryce Canyon. Bryce had some snowfall so driving was a bit tough in our Hyundai Elantra but the park was beautiful covered in a blanket of now. The downside was standing outside the lookouts was FREEZING and some trails were closed. Hiked down the hoodoos into the navajo loop and queens garden. Also did a short hike in a different section of Bryce that we exited the park to get to, but I can't remember the name. Bryce Canyon was my personal favorite park as the rock formations are just out of this world. Long drive from Bryce Canyon to Page, AZ. Stayed at the Hyatt Place Page using my free night certificate. Hotel was busy, shower had no water pressure for some reason but overall nice place.

-Wednesday: Lower Antelope Canyon tour with Ken's Tours. It is definitely a must see but be aware that it is always very crowded and unfortunately they do rush you thru the canyon a bit. Our tour guide wasn't the best but I overheard one of the other one's pointing out the cool rock formations and facts about the canyon. After Antelope Canyon we drove to Horseshoe Bend which is pretty close by. Parking is $10. Another natural wonder that you just don't get to see in the NY area. With updated weather forecasts and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon closed, we decided we were going to do the drive to the South Rim. It is a bit long but thankfully the roads are pretty straight and with the elevated speed limits, time went by fairly quickly. We made the bracha for a natural wonder b/c the first time you see the size and magnitude of the canyon it takes a few seconds for it all to sink in. We hadn't booked the hotel for our last night yet b/c we didn't know how the weather situation would affect our plans so I was scrambling to find a last minute hotel room. Luckily a winter storm was expected for Thanksgiving day so people were cancelling reservations and we were able to get a room at the Maswick Lodge in the park for only $100. It was a clean basic room but this gave us the chance to stay out later to watch sunset @ Mohabi Point and later the stars since the park is completely dark.

-Thursday: South Kaibab trailhead, Rim Trail to Mather's Point. Drove 4.5 hours back to Las Vegas for dinner at Ace of Steaks. Had some time before our flight and having never been to Vegas before, we walked through the Venetian hotel which we thought was pretty cool. Red eye flight back to JFK on Jetblue paid with cash.

To summarize: very busy and action packed 4.5 days but one of the most fun trips we've ever done and absolutely need to go see the other parks in Utah

[JudahMcB]

From the NPS website: "Zion's shuttle operation is temporarily suspended. Visitors may drive themselves. Parking is limited in Zion Canyon - visitors should expect intermittent closures of the Zion Canyon Scenic Drive when capacity is reached. Zion is currently open for day use only. The Zion Canyon Scenic Drive is a 6-mile road with roughly 400 parking spots....No vehicles over 23 feet long."

Any suggestions how to access the northern area hikes such as The Narrows, Riverside Walk, Upper Emerald Pools when traveling in an RV? If they won't allow RV's over 23' does it make sense to rent a minivan for the day? Any idea how early the parking lot near Temple of Sinawava fills up? Are there shuttle services you can pay for that will drop you off and pickup at a designated time? Maybe Uber (though without cell service in the area, not sure how we would arrange pickup)?

I found https://www.zionguru.com/ which is running a shuttle but at $38/pp it's a little steep for my family.

[Traveler718]

There definitely are a few shuttle services for Zion, since some of the hikes don't start and end at the same point. Try calling these guys to see if they can help, though I don't know how much cheaper they'll be than Zion Guru:

https://www.zionoutfitter.com/
https://www.zionadventures.com/
https://guidesinzion.com/

We used one of them for rental gear when we hiked the Narrows and were quite happy with them, but unfortunately it was many years ago and don't remember which. Still, for a basic shuttle, anyone local with a car should be fine. If it's too much $, I'd go ahead and rent a SUV/minivan for the day.

[SSLPhD]

Any idea how early the parking lot near Temple of Sinawava fills up?

They usually don't let you drive there during peak season... the suspended shuttle is *the* way to get there, so no way to really know the answer to your question.  However, there is a reason they don't let people drive, and I imagine that if you're not one of the first 400 people onto the road, you'll have quite a wait, likely hours.

[aarony]

Bicycles?

From the NPS website: "Zion's shuttle operation is temporarily suspended. Visitors may drive themselves. Parking is limited in Zion Canyon - visitors should expect intermittent closures of the Zion Canyon Scenic Drive when capacity is reached. Zion is currently open for day use only. The Zion Canyon Scenic Drive is a 6-mile road with roughly 400 parking spots....No vehicles over 23 feet long."

Any suggestions how to access the northern area hikes such as The Narrows, Riverside Walk, Upper Emerald Pools when traveling in an RV? If they won't allow RV's over 23' does it make sense to rent a minivan for the day? Any idea how early the parking lot near Temple of Sinawava fills up? Are there shuttle services you can pay for that will drop you off and pickup at a designated time? Maybe Uber (though without cell service in the area, not sure how we would arrange pickup)?

I found https://www.zionguru.com/ which is running a shuttle but at $38/pp it's a little steep for my family.

[chaimh770]

Anyone know of a potential summer campgrounds in southern Utah close enough to grand canyon etc. that's not opening due to covid and would be willing to rent out. 100-150 campers.