Is Starbucks Kosher?

[Menachem613]

Why doesn't Batul Beshishim play a role?

[aygart]

Why doesn't Batul Beshishim play a role?

How are you ensuring that the numbers work, especially where chana"n gets involved?

[elikay]

How are you ensuring that the numbers work, especially where chana"n gets involved?

+1
Never assume something is batel if you haven't asked a Rabbi (or are knowledgeable yourself).

[JustaHocker]

How are you ensuring that the numbers work, especially where chana"n gets involved?

What? On a whole sink full if soapy water that's pagum to begin with?
The CRC and Star-k are coning from a certification standpoint. They refuse to certify anything that they cannot guarantee it has no trafus QUESTIONS. But that does not mean the non-recommended stuff is really assur. Pagum, bitul, Stam kaylim, all these things come into play. Take the facts and present them to your LOR. I have been maykil on many things to those who have consulted me.

[farfallen]

Fwiw the crc opinion w a s based on a specific store layout and operation. There are some Starbucks, especially the bigger ones work differently in that the coffee makers are all self clean so with black coffee there can't be any questions. Also, some Starbucks will wash anything that came into contact with milk separately for allergy reasons....

[IsraelGuy]

Fwiw the crc opinion w a s based on a specific store layout and operation. There are some Starbucks, especially the bigger ones work differently in that the coffee makers are all self clean so with black coffee there can't be any questions. Also, some Starbucks will wash anything that came into contact with milk separately for allergy reasons....

Most stores operate the same way. Not that I'm advocating one opinion or the other, but from an information standpoint, the metal carafe's used for black coffee are almost exclusively cleaned separately (not self clean, they do run water from the sink through them, but they don't use sponges or anything like that), while the metal for the milk steamers they do put in the steam cleaners with other things (I've never heard of stores not doing it for allergy reasons, and if they did it would most likely only be for the soy steam containers).

Just got a package of African Kitamu which it's really good...

What's it taste like? The best coffee I think they ever had was the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, but they stopped selling it a few years ago. I've had the same bean from other manufacturers, and they just weren't as good (except from Klatch roasters, but they stopped selling it too )

I'm a big Coffe drinker but I think Starbucks makes bad Coffe. Just my opinion.

Come to Israel and you'll learn to appreciate Starbucks coffee a LOT more 

[IsraelGuy]

I'm asking if there's any heat involved in the preparation of the "tea essence" starbucks uses for their iced teas.

And yes, but it comes from a hot water spout attached to the coffee machines (dedicated line for boiling hot water, never washed). They use boiling hot water first, and let it steep and cool). The plastic tea containers the essence is stored in, however, if I recall correctly, are washed in the same steamers as everything else (think of it like a dishwasher, just with intense hot industrial steam).

[churnbabychurn]

What? On a whole sink full if soapy water that's pagum to begin with?
The CRC and Star-k are coning from a certification standpoint. They refuse to certify anything that they cannot guarantee it has no trafus QUESTIONS. But that does not mean the non-recommended stuff is really assur. Pagum, bitul, Stam kaylim, all these things come into play. Take the facts and present them to your LOR. I have been maykil on many things to those who have consulted me.

nice raid but your just a hacker. No one asked you:P

[AsherO]

What? On a whole sink full if soapy water that's pagum to begin with?
The CRC and Star-k are coning from a certification standpoint. They refuse to certify anything that they cannot guarantee it has no trafus QUESTIONS. But that does not mean the non-recommended stuff is really assur. Pagum, bitul, Stam kaylim, all these things come into play. Take the facts and present them to your LOR. I have been maykil on many things to those who have consulted me.

Isn't bittul only b'dieved. How can you rely on it lechatchila? (And please don't tell me once they already washed the dishes it's b'dieved...)

[Ergel]

Bittul is not a bdieved-it's a din and I think the plesi (could be someone else, don't remember) says you are an apikores if you don't rely on it.
There is a separate din of ein mevatlin issur lechatchila, which may not be relevant if done by a goy, AYLOR (or hocker)

[Menachem613]

Bittul is not a bdieved-it's a din and I think the plesi (could be someone else, don't remember) says you are an apikores if you don't rely on it.
There is a separate din of ein mevatlin issur lechatchila, which may not be relevant if done by a goy, AYLOR (or hocker)

I believe the only one to disagree is the Rashba who holds it's a bidieved only. But he's a Daas Yochid and we don't pasken like him.

[JustaHocker]

Regardless. The whole question comes up when you want to drink it which is after it's washed and batul.
Besides if you don't hold of bitul then you can't drink any milk. Since if the cow is a traifa, hole in lung etc. then the milk is not kosher. But we rely on the fact that most animals are not traifas and those that are, are BATUL in the majority.

[Ergel]

Regardless. The whole question comes up when you want to drink it which is after it's washed and batul.
Besides if you don't hold of bitul then you can't drink any milk. Since if the cow is a traifa, hole in lung etc. then the milk is not kosher. But we rely on the fact that most animals are not traifas and those that are, are BATUL in the majority.

Kind of

[aygart]

What? On a whole sink full if soapy water that's pagum to begin with?
The CRC and Star-k are coning from a certification standpoint. They refuse to certify anything that they cannot guarantee it has no trafus QUESTIONS. But that does not mean the non-recommended stuff is really assur. Pagum, bitul, Stam kaylim, all these things come into play. Take the facts and present them to your LOR. I have been maykil on many things to those who have consulted me.

Make sure your sink of soapy water exists the way you think it does. Don't assume. The CRC etc. are specifically NOT coming from a certification standpoint. They are not certifying it. Ask them.

BTW the Noda Biyehuda already says that stam keilim isn't nogieah in a coffee house setting and is quoted in Pischei Tshuva

[aygart]

Regardless. The whole question comes up when you want to drink it which is after it's washed and batul.
Besides if you don't hold of bitul then you can't drink any milk. Since if the cow is a traifa, hole in lung etc. then the milk is not kosher. But we rely on the fact that most animals are not traifas and those that are, are BATUL in the majority.

Kind of

Depends how kind you are being.

If that wold be the cheshbon then milk may be assur to drink due to Rav H. Schachter's question. If we hold that cows are a miut hamutzuy to be treifa that means that 10% are treifos (in practice it is much more than that, but that is due to chumros) and therefore MORE than echad bishishim. You need to come on to other types of rov such as kol diporish and/or chazokos to drink milk.

[JustaHocker]

Make sure your sink of soapy water exists the way you think it does. Don't assume. The CRC etc. are specifically NOT coming from a certification standpoint. They are not certifying it. Ask them.

:
Nobody's claiming that the CRC is certifying. What I said was that the standard they're using to determine whether something is 'recommended' or not is not based on purely halachic guidelines but rather certification guidelines.
Also Rabbi Lowy was not talking about this type of case.

[aygart]

:
Nobody's claiming that the CRC is certifying. What I said was that the standard they're using to determine whether something is 'recommended' or not is not based on purely halachic guidelines but rather certification guidelines.
Also Rabbi Lowy was not talking about this type of case.

Ask them.

[JustaHocker]

Huh? Did you see the CRC article before posting here? I did.

[aygart]

Huh? Did you see the CRC article before posting here? I did.

Then maybe we are misunderstanding each other. The article, quite specifically, is NOT discussing certification or real recommendation until section F.

[Ergel]

Depends how kind you are being.

If that wold be the cheshbon then milk may be assur to drink due to Rav H. Schachter's question. If we hold that cows are a miut hamutzuy to be treifa that means that 10% are treifos (in practice it is much more than that, but that is due to chumros) and therefore MORE than echad bishishim. You need to come on to other types of rov such as kol diporish and/or chazokos to drink milk.

Thanks-didn't have the patience to write it out.
@justahocker: are you really a posek?