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Jewish And Kosher In Florence

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jj1000, Eli, Chapshnell, @Yehuda, @Mootkim
« Last edited by Mootkim on December 10, 2018, 02:57:07 PM »

Author Topic: Florence Italy master thread  (Read 70916 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #280 on: July 19, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »
WOW! I can not even say how disappointed I am in this thread. The total disregard for the effects your comments have on someones parnasa is astounding. Especially since they are completely false.
If you're genuinely curious than find out in a less public way. Also, who are you to say if the IKC is generally accepted, you live in your "bubble" and maybe it's not accepted there but in my "bubble" it's very accepted. This isn't Israel or America it's not as easy to make OU and name brand hechshers work.
To answer your curiousity, just like major hechshers in America, the main Rabbi associated with the hechsher doesn't visit every store every day. He has people working for him who can check up on the restaurants themselves. In this case it is the Chazzan of the shul, Jacopo Treves who is the Masgiach. It just so happens the "rabbi in Brooklyn" will be there next week but that is totally irrelevant.
This thread is literally what's wrong with the politics of Kashruth and Judaism in general. If you knew the man you were hurting you would be ashamed. He told me he would love to leave Florence to go to a city or country with a more vibrant Jewish community but he feels if he left there would be no where for Jews to get Kosher food and people might eat non-kosher, so he stays. That is the person you are doubting and hurting...

All my post was doing was quoting 2 data points as I see them:

1. The IKC is not generally accepted. I use the word "generally" to mean that it does not appear on the CRC or Kosherquest lists, the two most authoritative lists. I have never seen a Vaad or other Orthodox Kasharus agency publicly endorse it. It should be noted that many smaller Vaads are on those types of lists, and many agencies out of NYC appear.

2. Ruth's previously was not widely accepted. I personally spoke to many Rabbis, including a former Rabbi in a different Italian city, and it was not recommended. I'm sure people ate there, but again, I did not see it widely endorsed.

My comment was not intended to say whether people should or shouldn't eat there. Additionally, I think you'll find that on this forum, everyone roots for there to be as much Kosher food around the world as possible. I believe it is constructive feedback to acknowledge the relative 'weakness' of the current state, as perhaps it will enable the restaurant to seek a more mainstream option, much like the restaurants in Rome and Milan have done.

My intention was not to hurt or disparage anyone. I apologize if I was misunderstood.

Offline jas1285

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #281 on: July 19, 2017, 01:31:52 PM »
All my post was doing was quoting 2 data points as I see them:

1. The IKC is not generally accepted. I use the word "generally" to mean that it does not appear on the CRC or Kosherquest lists, the two most authoritative lists. I have never seen a Vaad or other Orthodox Kasharus agency publicly endorse it. It should be noted that many smaller Vaads are on those types of lists, and many agencies out of NYC appear.

2. Ruth's previously was not widely accepted. I personally spoke to many Rabbis, including a former Rabbi in a different Italian city, and it was not recommended. I'm sure people ate there, but again, I did not see it widely endorsed.

My comment was not intended to say whether people should or shouldn't eat there. Additionally, I think you'll find that on this forum, everyone roots for there to be as much Kosher food around the world as possible. I believe it is constructive feedback to acknowledge the relative 'weakness' of the current state, as perhaps it will enable the restaurant to seek a more mainstream option, much like the restaurants in Rome and Milan have done.

My intention was not to hurt or disparage anyone. I apologize if I was misunderstood.

I can see your post wasn't intended to do harm, and although I quoted you it was really for everyone. The Rabbi of Florence leaving the shul meant he needed to change to a new hashgacha.  Instead of anyone (not your fault, rather the people that reported it) looking to see if he replaced it with a new one they only reported that he lost the old one. I can tell you with certainty that no one contacted the owner to find out any information before they posted that he lost his hechsher.

We can argue all day and night about the legitimacy of different hechshers but everyone is entitled to their opinions and that's none of my business, it's up to the individual to accept it or not. What I got so upset about was that places like Kashrut.com and Yeahthatskosher.com posted that he had no hechsher only to have made corrections the very next day. Great that they made the corrections but so much damage has already been done because they couldn't take the time to investigate anything. Yes he lost his haschacha but he got a new one, a pretty key detail that was completely left out. The fact that everyone here seemed to hop on board the "Ruth's definitely isn't kosher" bandwagon bothered me. Especially when someone is calling it dog food, but also said they wouldn't say that it if it had a hechsher.

I know I am not going to get anywhere with this I just didn't want a Jew, that much is a fact, to have his business ruined because of all this. Sorry if I came off a little harsh but I know the owner and it killed me to see him go through all this because of some bad reporting. No need to apologize, you seem like a well intentioned person

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #282 on: July 19, 2017, 02:11:48 PM »
If I had to bet, he got more publicity than he ever had before because of this, and in the end of the day, it probably will help his business, as those that would have eaten there under the old hashgacha will likely eat there under IKC as well. IKC is all over NY too and I haven't found a Rabbi or site (as mentioned by shaulyaakov) that lists the IKC as reliable. Wouldn't it be nice if Ruth's could just get Chabad of Florence to provide supervision? :)

Offline Friars500

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #283 on: July 19, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »
So to recap - Ruth's had a local hashgacha by the local chief Rabbi of Florence and not by Chabbad.  In May 2017, said Rabbi left the city of Florence and because there was no local Rabbi to certify, Ruth's no longer carried the local hashgacha.  To remedy, Ruth's received certification from the IKC and the IKC is currently  the certifying agency.  Acceptance of the IKC is at best controversial (I won't eat their establishments) and I hope when the new Rabbi gets hired, he and the local Chabad can work something out that the Chabbad will at least respect his Kashrus standards.

Offline jas1285

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #284 on: July 19, 2017, 02:47:27 PM »
Wouldn't it be nice if Ruth's could just get Chabad of Florence to provide supervision? :)
Not sure this is the publicity anyone wants but maybe Dan can broker a deal between them while he is in Italy ;D

Offline Yehoshua

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #285 on: July 19, 2017, 02:49:29 PM »
So to recap - Ruth's had a local hashgacha by the local chief Rabbi of Florence and not by Chabbad.  In May 2017, said Rabbi left the city of Florence and because there was no local Rabbi to certify, Ruth's no longer carried the local hashgacha.  To remedy, Ruth's received certification from the IKC and the IKC is currently  the certifying agency.  Acceptance of the IKC is at best controversial (I won't eat their establishments) and I hope when the new Rabbi gets hired, he and the local Chabad can work something out that the Chabbad will at least respect his Kashrus standards.
That's a good summary IMO.

Offline mimb

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #286 on: December 28, 2017, 11:39:29 AM »
Any hotel recommendations for Florence? Based on some TR's it looks like people stayed at either the St. Regis, or the AC hotel (which is probably too far outside Florence for me without a car). I don't need anything fancy just something clean and safe

Offline yg99

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #287 on: December 28, 2017, 01:15:59 PM »
I enjoyed the Westin.

Offline Yehoshua

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #288 on: December 28, 2017, 04:05:10 PM »
Any hotel recommendations for Florence? Based on some TR's it looks like people stayed at either the St. Regis, or the AC hotel (which is probably too far outside Florence for me without a car). I don't need anything fancy just something clean and safe
See my TR here

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #289 on: May 23, 2018, 09:44:58 PM »
Anyone here been to florence with a kid (we're going with our three year old)?
Would those who've been to the museums think that a (relatively calm but sometimes speaks loudly) child would seem out of place?

ETA: The kosher winery tour in Sienna mentioned above is certified by the OK (it says the honey is too, but they don't mention the olive oil). http://www.terradiseta.it/eng/aboutus.html
Any other recommended wine tastings in tuscany? Came across this as well - they have a restaurant too.
http://cantinagiuliano.com/en/
anyone been?
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Offline ajs625

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #290 on: May 23, 2018, 11:05:39 PM »
Any other recommended wine tastings in tuscany? Came across this as well - they have a restaurant too.
http://cantinagiuliano.com/en/
anyone been?

Check out Terra di Seta - http://www.terradiseta.it/eng/, I went there when I was in Florence, one of the better winery experiences I have had. The owner is a very nice guy.

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #291 on: May 23, 2018, 11:07:03 PM »
Check out Terra di Seta - http://www.terradiseta.it/eng/, I went there when I was in Florence, one of the better winery experiences I have had. The owner is a very nice guy.
Yup, that's the other one I saw. Do they have food there?
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Offline ajs625

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #292 on: May 23, 2018, 11:33:19 PM »
I do not believe so, but you can email them to see if that has changed as I was there in the summer of 2016.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #293 on: May 24, 2018, 12:08:24 AM »
Any other recommended wine tastings in tuscany? Came across this as well - they have a restaurant too.
http://cantinagiuliano.com/en/
anyone been?
These guys even run a B&B.  It sounded great, but the hashgacha wasn't what I wanted, so I went to Terra di Seta. I enjoyed it. And the area is beautiful. 

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #294 on: May 24, 2018, 12:09:28 AM »
These guys even run a B&B.  It sounded great, but the hashgacha wasn't what I wanted, so I went to Terra di Seta. I enjoyed it. And the area is beautiful.
Terra di seta is a few hours total?
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Offline ckmk47

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #295 on: May 24, 2018, 12:23:07 AM »
Terra di seta is a few hours total?
At the place I think the tour is an hour. But getting there takes time.  I drove. The last small road off the highway took half an hour.  and I got lost - confirm with them their GPS address. But quite a beautiful area. 

Offline Suave

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #296 on: May 28, 2018, 07:11:26 PM »
Yup, that's the other one I saw. Do they have food there?
They served us a very light brunch (caprese salad, bread & oil etc)

I made friends with the mashgiach & he offered me his kitchen (on-site) to make lunch, but the brunch was enough for me.

The drive from florence is gorgeous, we took our time & stopped at some scenic overlooks. We ended up spending about 4 hours at the winery - The owner taught me so much about wine in that short period.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:56:58 AM by Suave »
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Offline seemorehabs

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #297 on: May 30, 2018, 04:09:06 PM »
Anyone have experience taking train from Rome  to Florence?
Where/what  is the best way to buy tickets?
TIA

Online yitzyul

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #298 on: May 30, 2018, 04:47:49 PM »
Anyone have experience taking train from Rome  to Florence?
Where/what  is the best way to buy tickets?
TIA
There is an excellent app called Trainline.eu

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Re: Florence Italy master thread
« Reply #299 on: May 30, 2018, 05:07:05 PM »
In general how is the driving in Florence and Pisa? I understand that you can't really drive in the cities (ZTL) but trying to figure out if better off taking the train to Pisa & renting there, or renting in Florence and driving to Pisa. ( I will need a car after).