Lakewood NJ Master Thread

[imayid2]

I can only judge based on what’s public. Unless you have more to share, KCL has an egg on their face. They forgot that they no longer have a monopoly on Kashrus in Lakewood and came back running

I heard they came back begging and it’s now under new management.

[Fish Tank]

Well, pretty obviously you're missing a very big portion of the story

Why is that so obvious? He posted a lot more details than you.

[aygart]

Why is that so obvious? He posted a lot more details than you.

From his own words. I do not have any details at all. Don't you think whether the hechsher told them that they can or can't continue with the modified event is a major part of the story? It is very clearly advertised that there is new management. Does that have to do with the hechsher going back on? Did they get various concessions and guarantees from the place for the future? These all affect the story much more than anything he posted. All he posted is that there was an objection and things were modified.

[imayid2]

I don’t know if KCL said that was good enough.

They did not.

[yuneeq]

I heard they came back begging and it’s now under new management.

Yeh, they didn’t claim it was under new management until later. I saw it in a KCL ad posted in the Voice this week. But just a few days prior, “Rabbi Weisner, the KCL administrator, tells LNN that, thanks to the cooperation with the Ottimo Cafe management, the KCL is pleased to reinstate the kashrus certification once again.“

https://lnnnews.com/after-short-interruption-ottimo-cafe-is-back-under-kcl-supervision/

Reversing and claiming new management sounds like damage control.

[yuneeq]

Reminder that dozens of Lakewood parlor meetings, fundraisers, and other events feature kumzits and hookah, whether you consider that good or bad. To remove kashrus over what is common practice is bold, and understandably they made amends to get this behind them.

[shlomoandtam]

Once we are talking about Ottimo, Google Maps says they are Black-owned. I am curious if that is just a marketing thing to show up higher on Google's algorithm or if it is actually true.

[Jkhein]

Once we are talking about Ottimo, Google Maps says they are Black-owned. I am curious if that is just a marketing thing to show up higher on Google's algorithm or if it is actually true.

Black jacket

[yoohoo]

Once we are talking about Ottimo, Google Maps says they are Black-owned. I am curious if that is just a marketing thing to show up higher on Google's algorithm or if it is actually true.

”identifies” as black owned it says. Big difference. Snaps said that too for a while. I see now it’s not listed

[Mordyk]

I think Uber eats was promoting black owned.

[imayid2]

Yeh, they didn’t claim it was under new management until later. I saw it in a KCL ad posted in the Voice this week. But just a few days prior, “Rabbi Weisner, the KCL administrator, tells LNN that, thanks to the cooperation with the Ottimo Cafe management, the KCL is pleased to reinstate the kashrus certification once again.“

https://lnnnews.com/after-short-interruption-ottimo-cafe-is-back-under-kcl-supervision/

Reversing and claiming new management sounds like damage control.

From what I heard it was part of the requirements to reinstate when Otimo came back begging. They even got them to pay for the expenses incurred to let people know they removed it.

[imayid2]

Reminder that dozens of Lakewood parlor meetings, fundraisers, and other events feature kumzits and hookah, whether you consider that good or bad. To remove kashrus over what is common practice is bold, and understandably they made amends to get this behind them.

Let’s see if Otimo does this again

[aygart]

One thing that IMHO would be totally unacceptable is if they were told not to do it and then did it anyhow. If this happened, and I don't know if it did, then they deserve to be blacklisted by every single hechsher. If you don't like their policies, go get a different hechsher, but as long as you have this hechsher, you need to abide by their rules. If you flout the hechshers rules just because you disagree with them, that is now a Kashrus problem, too.

[avromie7]

One thing that IMHO would be totally unacceptable is if they were told not to do it and then did it anyhow. If this happened, and I don't know if it did, then they deserve to be blacklisted by every single hechsher. If you don't like their policies, go get a different hechsher, but as long as you have this hechsher, you need to abide by their rules. If you flout the hechshers rules just because you disagree with them, that is now a Kashrus problem, too.

I don't think this argument is very strong when it isn't a kashrus related rule.

[aygart]

I don't think this argument is very strong when it isn't a kashrus related rule.

People who flout authority flout authority. Nobody hired KCL without knowing that they have some non-kashrus related policies. They may not bring in treif meat, but they may feel that KCL is being too machmir about bugs on fruits and vegetables and skirt them there. Once they feel they know better it comes out in many ways.

[yuneeq]

People who flout authority flout authority. Nobody hired KCL without knowing that they have some non-kashrus related policies. They may not bring in treif meat, but they may feel that KCL is being too machmir about bugs on fruits and vegetables and skirt them there. Once they feel they know better it comes out in many ways.

What exactly is the policy? KCL doesn’t certify food served that is served with hookahs?

[Jkhein]

What exactly is the policy? KCL doesn’t certify food served that is served with hookahs?

KCL doesn't certify hookah bars. One can argue they are "old fashioned" but as long as they are giving the certification they get to make the rules, without the need to disclose their policies to ddf'ers.
Our young generation really has a problem with authority. We want a hechsher but we want it our way.

[ari3]

Banning a restaurant for a dumb reason (as perceived by many) until realizing how stupid they look, knowing Ottimo would immediately get a new hechsher and everyone would still go there. KCL backtracked immediately to save from further embarrassment and for the paycheck.

IMHO on the contrary KCL comes out looking much stronger from all this. They took a stand on their policies (albeit not kashrus related) and pulled their hashgocha, the store owner came back begging and promised to behave and they put the hashgocha back.

While the hooka crowd might not care which hashgocha, a large part of lakewood does care. I doubt any respectable hashgocha would take over an establishment under those circumstances and enough people aren't going to be happy with a weak hashgocha.

[Euclid]

Our young generation really has a problem with authority.

Said every older generation ever.

[yuneeq]

IMHO on the contrary KCL comes out looking much stronger from all this. They took a stand on their policies (albeit not kashrus related) and pulled their hashgocha, the store owner came back begging and promised to behave and they put the hashgocha back.

While the hooka crowd might not care which hashgocha, a large part of lakewood does care. I doubt any respectable hashgocha would take over an establishment under those circumstances and enough people aren't going to be happy with a weak hashgocha.

KCL would be top notch if they cared half as much about Kashrus as they did hashkafa