Lakewood NJ Master Thread

[jaywhy]

Simple: your illustration of "working people" is WAY off the mark. Perhaps %2 of the working population fits that description.

And what pisses me off most of all about kollel people discriminating against working people is: just who do you think it is that is paying for you to sit in kollel, anyway?! Other kollel people?!

Exactly. Lakewood is being forced to realize that the whole Kollel thing is an unsustainable system. Someone needs to work.
#bitethehand

[Fish Tank]

Hi all, i'll say straight out that i'm from lkwd, but the points I wanna make have nothing to that with that and aren't at all biast.

First of all, it doesn't make any sense to me that people who don't live in lkwd can have a say in this matter/in these politics.
As much as you "hear" about what goes on, it doesn't give you enough info to actually know whats really going on.

Just from lurking on the forums a little, and from seeing posts in this thread, it doesn't seem moishebatchy, jaywhy, judahk88, and others, live in lkwd. 
So for you guys, I would say please post your sources, and even then, it doesn't really mean much.

And moishebatchy, before you come back and tell me to read your post about your brother in laws' that are in chinuch - I just wanna say that sometimes mikva hock (e.g. bmg coffee room) is better/dirtier/fuller/etc then "hearing from your rebbe bro-in-law"

And one last point, This is for Dan or chaikel , This thread was very usefull and has alot of great info. Is it possible you can merge off the last conversartion to a seperate thread?

Thank you

[judahk88]

Hi all, i'll say straight out that i'm from lkwd, but the points I wanna make have nothing to that with that and aren't at all biast.

First of all, it doesn't make any sense to me that people who don't live in lkwd can have a say in this matter/in these politics.
As much as you "hear" about what goes on, it doesn't give you enough info to actually know whats really going on.

Just from lurking on the forums a little, and from seeing posts in this thread, it doesn't seem moishebatchy, jaywhy, judahk88, and others, live in lkwd. 
So for you guys, I would say please post your sources, and even then, it doesn't really mean much.

And moishebatchy, before you come back and tell me to read your post about your brother in laws' that are in chinuch - I just wanna say that sometimes mikva hock (e.g. bmg coffee room) is better/dirtier/fuller/etc then "hearing from your rebbe bro-in-law"

And one last point, This is for Dan or chaikel , This thread was very usefull and has alot of great info. Is it possible you can merge off the last conversartion to a seperate thread?

Thank you

Wow I feel so special that you singled me out for one comment I made in the past 3 pages of this thread  . Did you say you were from Lakewood? 

[yuneeq]

And one last point, This is for Dan or chaikel , This thread was very usefull and has alot of great info. Is it possible you can merge off the last conversartion to a seperate thread?

Thank you

+1

I apologize as I have caused this thread to go bonkers today.

[judahk88]

+1

I apologize as I have caused this thread to go bonkers today.

Alot of threads go OT at some point for a little bit.

[jaywhy]

Just from lurking on the forums a little, and from seeing posts in this thread, it doesn't seem moishebatchy, jaywhy, judahk88, and others, live in lkwd.
FYI, I was born and raised in Lakewood, most of my family lives there and I have first-hand experience with the school system, hypocrisy, kollel, you name it... I don't live there anymore. BH
Not that it matters where you live in order to have an opinion on Lakewood politics.
So for you guys, I would say please post your sources, and even then, it doesn't really mean much. Only we have to post sources?

[Deal Guy]

+1

I apologize as I have caused this thread to go bonkers today.

+1. If after today this thread goes back to being what it was, then just leave it alone, but if this goes on, then it is simply killing the thread, and just merge these comments into a new thread called Lakewood Hock.

[Saver2000]

Simple: your illustration of "working people" is WAY off the mark. Perhaps %2 of the working population fits that description.

And what pisses me off most of all about kollel people discriminating against working people is: just who do you think it is that is paying for you to sit in kollel, anyway?! Other kollel people?!

Was waiting for someone to bring up that point and start that argument!!
Lemme tell ya, that svura would never fly in lkwd!
The yeshivaliet will tell you that it can/will be done however R' Aron did it.

[yuneeq]

Two reasons:

1) Because it hasn't really changed all that much. It's not like they suddenly fell in love with the working people in their midst; its just that things like the space issue are bigger and more pressing, so the "working" issue is taking a backseat. But there still is not much love lost toward working people.

2) Even whatever has changed, has not changed out of their own free will. It's like teshuvah me'ahavah versus teshuvah me'yirah - they didn't become more accepting of working people and their families because they realized they had been engaging in sinas Yisroel and decided to mend their ways; they became more accepting simply because they realized that their efforts to banish working people had failed, so they now have no choice but to make peace with the new reality. But given the choice, many would love to go back to the "good old days" of having only yeshivishe people living there.

1. Understood. Not sure what that last part means.

2.  A) Everyone has their issues. If the system changed, in my mind that's good enough. There are plenty of things that need change in every community, though nobody cares to do it.

B) Don't most bnei torah like to be surrounded by other bnei torah? I'm not saying that working people aren't bnei torah, but there is definitely a preference by most demographics to live around their same type of people.

[MEIR613]

Just read up the thread and I feel so left out.

Why does everyone here think Lakewood is the only place that knocks working people.

There are people from all over that knock working and college.

A lot of mothers won't let their daughters go out with guys that work/college on the side.

This is today industry. If you don't like it, try not to associate yourself with people that feel this way.

All I am saying is, the main problem is that this world judges you with what you wear, do, drive etc. it has nothing to do with this community or not. Some places

 are more than others, but you will find this almost everywhere.

[jaywhy]

Was waiting for someone to bring up that point and start that argument!!
Lemme tell ya, that svura would never fly in lkwd!
The yeshivaliet will tell you that it can/will be done however R' Aron did it.

Because it was one generation arrangement. Parents, donors, fundraising, that can all help cover the financial burden of Kollel families. Kollel parents cannot support Kollel children. The whole house of cards comes crashing down.

[churnbabychurn]

Simple: your illustration of "working people" is WAY off the mark. Perhaps %2 of the working population fits that description.

And what pisses me off most of all about kollel people discriminating against working people is: just who do you think it is that is paying for you to sit in kollel, anyway?! Other kollel people?!

You obviously missed my point. Yeshivalite have nothing against most bala batim. Its the "working ppl" that I described, who have moved into Lakewood that they do not want to associate with.
You obviously have a chip on your shoulder against kollel ppl, its sad.

[churnbabychurn]

Simple: your illustration of "working people" is WAY off the mark. Perhaps %2 of the working population fits that description.

And what pisses me off most of all about kollel people discriminating against working people is: just who do you think it is that is paying for you to sit in kollel, anyway?! Other kollel people?!

Paying? Lemme guess, you dont donate to BMG, right?

[robi]

Because it was one generation arrangement. Parents, donors, fundraising, that can all help cover the financial burden of Kollel families. Kollel parents cannot support Kollel children. The whole house of cards comes crashing down.

possibly, but your forgetting the wonderful state of NJ, which supports most long time learners....

[churnbabychurn]

possibly, but your forgetting the wonderful state of NJ, which supports most long time learners....

+1

[Moishebatchy]

Hi all, i'll say straight out that i'm from lkwd, but the points I wanna make have nothing to that with that and aren't at all biast.
 

I find it hard to believe that you aren't "biast" (sic), but I'll start by giving you the benefit of the doubt, and we'll dissect the hogwash that comprises your post, piece by piece.

 

First of all, it doesn't make any sense to me that people who don't live in lkwd can have a say in this matter/in these politics.
As much as you "hear" about what goes on, it doesn't give you enough info to actually know whats really going on.
 

Sorry, I'm gonna call BS on that one. Like someone once said, "opinions are like backsides: everyone has one, and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks". Just because someone doesn't live there, that doesn't invalidate their right to an opinion, even if you feel it stinks. You can discredit anything they say... in your own mind. But you can't take away someone's right to feel a certain way about something, and to discuss it openly.


 

Just from lurking on the forums a little, and from seeing posts in this thread, it doesn't seem moishebatchy, jaywhy, judahk88, and others, live in lkwd. 
So for you guys, I would say please post your sources, and even then, it doesn't really mean much.
 

Did you not read my post? I lived in Lakewood. I lived and breathed the local politics. I've spent countless hours in the offices of various yeshivas (doing volunteer work), rubbing shoulders with some of the top brass in the community.

My sources? Myself. My own personal experiences, observations, and interactions. I think that's good enough.

 

And moishebatchy, before you come back and tell me to read your post about your brother in laws' that are in chinuch - I just wanna say that sometimes mikva hock (e.g. bmg coffee room) is better/dirtier/fuller/etc then "hearing from your rebbe bro-in-law"

Lemme get this straight... you believe that coffee room hock/mikvah neias (i.e. pure, unadulterated, random speculation, often with no factual basis) is more reliable than hearing crystal clear facts directly from the people involved in these things?!

You know what, let's say you're right... Well, I've spent countless late-night hours sitting in the office of Yeshiva Ketana, talking community politics with the aforementioned "top brass". Those candid, open, shooting-the-breeze conversations put any mikva schmooze to shame.

[Fish Tank]

I find it hard to believe that you aren't "biast" (sic), but I'll start by giving you the benefit of the doubt, and we'll dissect the hogwash that comprises your post, piece by piece.

Sic?

Sorry, I'm gonna call BS on that one. Like someone once said, "opinions are like backsides: everyone has one, and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks". Just because someone doesn't live there, that doesn't invalidate their right to an opinion, even if you feel it stinks. You can discredit anything they say... in your own mind. But you can't take away someone's right to feel a certain way about something, and to discuss it openly.

Since when are we disscussing opions?? This conversation started off with why the schools in lkwd don't accept certain kids/kids from certain homes.

Thats not about opion, there are facts about that.

 

Did you not read my post? I lived in Lakewood. I lived and breathed the local politics. I've spent countless hours in the offices of various yeshivas (doing volunteer work), rubbing shoulders with some of the top brass in the community.

Lol.

My sources? Myself. My own personal experiences, observations, and interactions. I think that's good enough.

You have experience with getting your kids into school in lkwd??

Lemme get this straight... you believe that coffee room hock/mikvah neias (i.e. pure, unadulterated, random speculation, often with no factual basis) is more reliable than hearing crystal clear facts directly from the people involved in these things?!

You know what, let's say you're right... Well, I've spent countless late-night hours sitting in the office of Yeshiva Ketana, talking community politics with the aforementioned "top brass". Those candid, open, shooting-the-breeze conversations put any mikva schmooze to shame.

Believe it or not, not always will you "rebbe bro-in-law" tell you everything, or even know everything thats going on.
Sad to say, but the real L"h goes on in other places besides family dining rooms.

[Mimi K.]

isn't it Ironic that I was getting blasted for speaking L"H about WS By Baruch and then you slipped into Lakewood and Rabbi/Askan Bashing which is somehow not considered L"H and then this whole thing spiraled into something crazy.

You're being malshin on the neighborhood. Delete it. Ask a Rav, if he says it's mutar (highly doubt he will), repost it. I have this feeling that saying Lashon Hara berabim is not worth it if you're 

I strongly urge the past few posts to be deleted, it is Lashon Hara, if it's letoeles - use pm.

People have to use pull and protektzia to get into these schools. What once used to be call your rich uncle to get into Brisk, is now call your rich uncle to get into Pre 1A!!!

The most powerful people in town are the Rashei Mosdos, and a lot of them wield that power for personal benefit. I will not get into details. But a lot of them aren't exactly the most ehrliche yerei shomayim.

[moko]

isn't it Ironic that I was getting blasted for speaking L"H about WS By Baruch and then you slipped into Lakewood and Rabbi/Askan Bashing which is somehow not considered L"H and then this whole thing spiraled into something crazy.

+1000 general rule of thumb- "my" LH is mutar/litoeles or whatever other heter u can name

[Let3]

Sic?
  Since when are we disscussing opions?? This conversation started off with why the schools in lkwd don't accept certain kids/kids from certain homes.

Thats not about opion, there are facts about that.

  Lol.
You have experience with getting your kids into school in lkwd??
Believe it or not, not always will you "rebbe bro-in-law" tell you everything, or even know everything thats going on.
Sad to say, but the real L"h goes on in other places besides family dining rooms.

I'm still not sure what your trying I say..
In not saying in with moishebatchy on this one but I defenaty think he is bringing up valid points and don't here your argument...
Your agreeing there is dirty hock in Lakewood (and he says he saw it first hand) just arguing on source??