Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[henche]

And the Eida Chareidis?

This.  The number one kashrus in world are owned by  figuratively the worst ppl ever.

[churnbabychurn]

And the Eida Chareidis?

R Moshe shternbuch once told a friend of mine that he take full achrayus. - I'll take that to the bank.

[churnbabychurn]

That being said, I once had a conversation with my nephew, who proudly announced that he will only eat Badatz (Eida Chareidis) and Landa, and couldn't understand why his grandfather (my FIL) had such disdain for such a statement. I explained to him that while no one refutes the fact that those two Kashrus organizations hold the highest (or strictest) standards, one shouldn't think for a second that if he decides to rely only on those two, he is in any way holier than one who would accept more lenient Hechsherim. If you decide that you want to be machmir for yourself, תבוא עליך ברכה, but once you make it public, it smells of "holier than thou" וכו׳ וד״ל.

I fully agree. I started this conversation as a practical thing.
For eg. Over shabbos I wondered if not eating OU means never eating Craisins again?

[churnbabychurn]

This.  The number one kashrus in world are owned by  figuratively the worst ppl ever.

Wow. How did you get here?
The eida is primarily an extremely respected beis din.

[henche]

Wow. How did you get here?
The eida is primarily an extremely respected beis din.

If youre Palestinian

[aygart]

Wow. How did you get here?
The eida is primarily an extremely respected beis din.

This is factually untrue.

[churnbabychurn]

This is factually untrue.

Fine. It's not respected by left wing modox, chabad and some others.
Otherwise they are well known as being massive talmidy chachomim and you're shomayim.

If you can't respect the raavad for eg as such, the conversation is a waste of time.

[aygart]

R Moshe shternbuch once told a friend of mine that he take full achrayus. - I'll take that to the bank.

So so convincing yourself that it has to do with being connect to a political organization. It is what their politics are that disturbs you.

[henche]

Fine. It's not respected by left wing modox, chabad and some others.
Otherwise they are well known as being massive talmidy chachomim and you're shomayim.

...who occasionally firebomb rav shteinman ztls car

[henche]

And like half are neturei karta

[churnbabychurn]

And like half are neturei karta

If we use your metrics of judging a kashrus organization by it's hashkafos, (politics) imho OU is chazer treif.

[churnbabychurn]

So so convincing yourself that it has to do with being connect to a political organization. It is what their politics are that disturbs you.

No idea what you're saying

[moko]

The OU as an organization is driven by profits and reputation. I am looking for hechsherim that are driven by yiras shomayim or at least someone perceived as one is telling you it's OK.
Professionalism and expertise are also crucial. But secondary.

so is everyone else. You've made some valid points but this is not one of them

[aygart]

If we use your metrics of judging a kashrus organization by it's hashkafos, (politics) imho OU is chazer treif.

You are doing just that but won't admit it to yourself.

[churnbabychurn]

-1
Much of the research they conduct is not just "standard" related, plant specific including who the RC of the company and  mashgiach at a specific plant is.
There are weak links across the Kashrus industry from the smallest hechsherim to the largest (including mine). The first  step is to acknowledge that and develop a system to deal with it. A statement which requires the RC to review his plants annually is great. Having a dedicated review team is another method. The point is to actually make sure these things are happening. Unfortunately, finiances get in the way more often than not and reviews cost money.
Question is not if there are failings but rather how they are addressed. I can tell you first hand, there's no way for an RC to properly manage over 500 companies unless they are Group 1

Great point. The OU should be fully audited by an impartial external party annually.

[aygart]

Great point. The OU should be fully audited by an impartial external party annually.

Which hechsher shouldn't? Which does?

[moko]

Which hechsher shouldn't? Which does?

we we're audited by the cRc a few years ago

[moko]

Great point. The OU should be fully audited by an impartial external party annually.

an internal audit is also important.
The OK does a pretty good job. Instead of boycotting the OU, why don't you send them a letter requesting how they do internal audits.

[churnbabychurn]

I am not calling for any boycott

[churnbabychurn]

Which hechsher shouldn't? Which does?

Come to think of it, they all should.


I'm calling for an external annual audit process for all hechsherim.
I would donate money to get this started. We need an organization that will give an audit opinion on the respective kashrus organizations processes and controls. To verify that they are keeping and upholding their own standards and procedures.


 (Unless there is some kind of inherent reliability built into the leadership of the organization..)