Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

With everything discussed above, can you send your kid? No
Starbucks? ditto.

End of story.

Yes
Yes

[aygart]

It’s irrelevant to our subject as pointed out above

That depends on how you define lichatchila and bidieved. I've heard R Heinemann include buying an item as lichatchila. I need to look at my notes but my recollection is that even without this it is not totally irrelevant. Definitely not regarding giving a hechsher.

[ari3]

My comment was multi faceted, including the fact that Rav Moshe held very strongly that people should rely on hechsherim, and the bashing of a hechsher by a competent rav is not something he would condone.
 I asked the posek in YSI who is a very close talmid and he said I don't need to be makpid on DE. To be clear, this was his psak, I didn't ask what Rav Moshe held.

My intention was not to bash anyone. The owner of rita insinuated in his letter that the rav hamachshir is an experienced pioneer of kashrush in lakewood and that is not the case.

Bottom line is they are relying on kulos many would not want to rely on. The fact that your rov said DE is okay is irrelevant. You can follow your rov and great, but many people don't want to eat DE nor do they want to eat in an establishment that has cholov stam relying on a non jew to make sure that they don't get mixed up. To add to all this they are not forthright about this at all, there is no sign in the store that states what is being served and what kulos are being relied on.

That being said I still stand by what I said IMHO a ben torah should not be patronizing that establishmment as is not up to the standards many bnei torah are keeping. It's not like anyone will starve if they ch"v don't eat rita's.

As far as what R' Moshe would say are you an expert on his opinion? Are you a talmid? Are you familiar with all his teshuvos and psokim?

[ari3]

That depends on how you define lichatchila and bidieved. I've heard R Heinemann include buying an item as lichatchila. I need to look at my notes but my recollection is that even without this it is not totally irrelevant. Definitely not regarding giving a hechsher.

I think he is of the opinion that purchasing coffee when on the road would be cosidered bedieved as opposed to when you are in a place that there are other options available.

[aygart]

I think he is of the opinion that purchasing coffee when on the road would be cosidered bedieved as opposed to when you are in a place that there are other options available.

That is correct and similar but I've heard in other context

[yitzgar]

It's not like anyone will starve if they ch"v don't eat rita's.

Except the owner maybe. You can point out specific things that you have a problem with and that others might be concerned about to the extent that they may choose not to patronize the store, but it's not very fair to make blanket statements like "a ben Torah shouldn't eat there."

[imayid2]

That depends on how you define lichatchila and bidieved. I've heard R Heinemann include buying an item as lichatchila.

It is mefurash in the pri magadim that that is בדיעבד.

ETA It is explicit in the רמ״א סימן קכ״ב סעיף ו and the PM in קח adds that that applies even if there is an abundance of other options. Would love to know why someone would say otherwise.

[imayid2]

I think he is of the opinion that purchasing coffee when on the road would be cosidered bedieved as opposed to when you are in a place that there are other options available.

Buying something already made is always considered בדיעבד in the context of אין מבטלין

[avromie7]

As far as what R' Moshe would say are you an expert on his opinion? Are you a talmid? Are you familiar with all his teshuvos and psokim?

I'm not old enough to be a talmid of Rav Moshe, but I am a talmid of Rav Reuven. My understanding of Rav Moshes opinion comes from him, part of which you can see here:

[imayid2]

Bottom line is they are relying on kulos many would not want to rely on.

Personally don't see the big deal.  The חשש that the CY machine was  filled with חלב סתם is a safek, and you'd still have a ספק ספיקא to rely on לכתחילה.
Additionally, worse case scenario yo eat CS which is מותר מעיקר הדין.

there is no sign in the store that states what is being served

Not sure what this means. Thete are signs in the store telling you what is C'Y C'S DE and פת פלתר.

[avromie7]

Personally don't see the big deal.  The חשש that the CY machine was  filled with חלב סתם is a safek, and you'd still have a ספק ספיקא to rely on לכתחילה.
Additionally, worse case scenario yo eat CS which is מותר מעיקר הדין.
Not sure what this means. Thete are signs in the store telling you what is C'Y C'S DE and פת פלתר.

I have no idea if it changed under the new ownership, but in the past the staff would ask a frum person to fill a tracker sheet when they refill the machine as a way to verify the machine is filled with the CY ice cream.

[imayid2]

I have no idea if it changed under the new ownership, but in the past the staff would ask a frum person to fill a tracker sheet when they refill the machine as a way to verify the machine is filled with the CY ice cream.

Yes. I’ve filled it in the past. I don’t think it’s like that anymore presumably because it’s now under Jewish ownership so they see less reason for it. Last time I was there there was a religious guy working there.

[moko]

I have no idea if it changed under the new ownership, but in the past the staff would ask a frum person to fill a tracker sheet when they refill the machine as a way to verify the machine is filled with the CY ice cream.

We would lock a CY batch freezer at a non CY location.
They would need to schedule a Mashgiach to refill.

[Yehuda57]

Additionally, worse case scenario yo eat CS which is מותר מעיקר הדין.
 

Yeah, this doesn't inspire any confidence. The whole point of the hechsher is to ensure this worst case scenario doesn't happen.

Also, an establishment of hechsher that purports to hold of a certain chumrah but is not reliable on that, you can't be sure is reliable on anything.

[aygart]

I have no idea if it changed under the new ownership, but in the past the staff would ask a frum person to fill a tracker sheet when they refill the machine as a way to verify the machine is filled with the CY ice cream.

Yes. I’ve filled it in the past. I don’t think it’s like that anymore presumably because it’s now under Jewish ownership so they see less reason for it. Last time I was there there was a religious guy working there.

Does this qualify as yisroel roehu? (Obviously a frum employee would)

[moko]

Yeah, this doesn't inspire any confidence. The whole point of the hechsher is to ensure this worst case scenario doesn't happen.

Also, an establishment of hechsher that purports to hold of a certain chumrah but is not reliable on that, you can't be sure is reliable on anything.

you mean like chasidishe hashgachos certifying yoshon?

[aygart]

Personally don't see the big deal.  The חשש that the CY machine was  filled with חלב סתם is a safek, and you'd still have a ספק ספיקא to rely on לכתחילה.
Additionally, worse case scenario yo eat CS which is מותר מעיקר הדין.

Does this qualify as yisroel roehu?

[moko]

Does this qualify as yisroel roehu? (Obviously a frum employee would)

afaik, thats only by the actual chaliva. After that it  falls under the halachos of  חבית חמפג.

[Yehuda57]

you mean like chasidishe hashgachos certifying yoshon?

No, I don't mean that the mashgiach needs to hold of CY.

Though there is an element of worry with your scenario as well, but I wasn't referring to that.

[moko]

No, I don't mean that the mashgiach needs to hold of CY.

Though there is an element of worry with your scenario as well, but I wasn't referring to that.

na element? If you only knew.... They treat yoshon just like

Personally don't see the big deal.  The חשש that the CY machine was  filled with חלב סתם is a safek, and you'd still have a ספק ספיקא to rely on לכתחילה.
Additionally, worse case scenario yo eat CS which is מותר מעיקר הדין.

if not even more kal