Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[menotyou]

Ask your children's camp. That's the biggest push they can get!

my point exactly please spread awareness!

[yfr bachur]

https://www.akokosher.org/camp
Why are so few camps signing up, it seems to be a no-brainer for anyone who cares?

About time.
The campI went to as a bachur had numerous kashrus horror stories, although the owner was known as a ben torah, and the clientel were generaly quite frum people. It is shocking to think about the gedolie yisroel that ate there without asking a single question!

One year the owner and new chef had an arguement. About...the neemanus of a non jewish assistant chef to say that his own personal knifes were kosher. Guess which side the owner was on... despite allegedly having smicha.

they served bug infested food reguraly

they bought OU regular meat from the agri liquidation sale after the RSR affair, although that was below the standards of almost all campers.

they fried schinitzel in the deep fryer just used to fry fish even after they were told not to ... when questioned about it they said " we asked the magid shiur and he said its ok" said magid shiur did not have any experience in kashrus nor smicha.

the sheet pans... old and abbused... and painted red on one end and blue on the other!

the bachur helping in the kiychen who used parev pans for pizza for lunce " bec there parev so i can use it" and then used the same pans for hot dogs for supper, "bec theyre pareve so I can use it"

....

oh... to fullfill the NYS kashrus disclosure laws, they wrote the name of a certain person (who worked for one of the major kashrus orgs) as the supervising rabbi with his work affiliation...  conviniently leaving out that he worked abroad, was never ever on site, and was a part owner of the camp....

[yelped]

About time.


.................

Ouch!!!

[mevinyavin]

Ouch!!!

+1000

Just for one counter narrative, I was in camp and it had none of the above problems. (I worked as a waiter so I got to see what was going on.)

[rbs-g1.5]

+1000

Just for one counter narrative, I was in camp and it had none of the above problems. (I worked as a waiter so I got to see what was going on.)

I was in camp and it had similar problems,when nobody cares enough to change things they don't change themselves

[yfr bachur]

+1000

Just for one counter narrative, I was in camp and it had none of the above problems. (I worked as a waiter so I got to see what was going on.)

I only wrote stories that I saw with my own eyes.
My final years there, I was sort of a mashgiach for the staff of the camp who had learned not to trust the owner....

[rbs-g1.5]

I only wrote stories that I saw with my own eyes.
My final years there, I was sort of a mashgiach for the staff of the camp who had learned not to trust the owner....

Yet kept on eating there although knowing it wasn't really ok. To quote my friends back in the day in yeshiva "what can you do all yeshiva kitchens are treif" There was this  resigned attitude that eating in yeshiva is like the fact that we sometimes speak loshon hara ,you know it's wrong but in our generation that's how it is. For obvious reasons yeshiva and camp kitchens were never held to the (not very impressive ) standards demanded of restaurants .

[yfr bachur]

Yet kept on eating there although knowing it wasn't really ok. To quote my friends back in the day in yeshiva "what can you do all yeshiva kitchens are treif" There was this  resigned attitude that eating in yeshiva is like the fact that we sometimes speak loshon hara ,you know it's wrong but in our generation that's how it is. For obvious reasons yeshiva and camp kitchens were never held to the (not very impressive ) standards demanded of restaurants .

Actualy, once I entered the kitchen , and saw what was going on, I stopped eating anything cooked there. At least a portion of the head staff did the same. (AFAIK kashrus was a factor in some members of the staff leaving the camp)

BTW The kitchen in my yeshiva was supervised by the local vaad.

[koplonko]

For obvious reasons yeshiva and camp kitchens were never held to the (not very impressive ) standards demanded of restaurants .

The difference is that a restaurant under hashacha, has someone that will burn instead of you. Yeshiva or camp no one takes responsibility, so the responsibility is on you

[Mareh Makom]

Ive been in camps amd yeshivos as well and was involved in the kitchens, and they didn't have these problems. They all followed halacha as a frum institution should...

[avromie7]

The difference is that a restaurant under hashacha, has someone that will burn instead of you. Yeshiva or camp no one takes responsibility, so the responsibility is on you

The owner of the camp or yeshiva is responsible. If their negligence causes people to eat non-kosher, they are fully responsible.

[JMHO]

The owner of the camp or yeshiva is responsible. If their negligence causes people to eat non-kosher, they are fully responsible.

Why?
Isn't it negligent and irresponsible of parents to send their children to a camp or Yeshiva that does not have published standards, protocols, guidelines or any oversight?

[ah giten]

The owner of the camp or yeshiva is responsible. If their negligence causes people to eat non-kosher, they are fully responsible.

was discussed multiple times, you can blame them, maybe, but the Timtum Halev goes even for a Shogeg.

[avromie7]

Why?
Isn't it negligent and irresponsible of parents to send their children to a camp or Yeshiva that does not have published standards, protocols, guidelines or any oversight?

No. Eid echad is ne'eman. The parents don't need to ask details.

was discussed multiple times, you can blame them, maybe, but the Timtum Halev goes even for a Shogeg.

R Moshe disagrees. He says there can't be timtum halev for eating something the torah says you can eat. The torah says 1 eid is believed, if you rely on that 1 eid you are following the torahs guidelines.

[imayid2]

No. Eid echad is ne'eman. The parents don't need to ask details.

Who’s the eid and what did he tell the parents?

Of course the parents have to ask details. Otherwise they are being grossly negligent.

[avromie7]

Who’s the eid and what did he tell the parents?

Of course the parents have to ask details. Otherwise they are being grossly negligent.

The owner is feeding the children, he said he's providing kosher food.

[imayid2]

The owner is feeding the children, he said he's providing kosher food.

Kosher can mean a million things. They need to find out what he means by “kosher”.

[avromie7]

Kosher can mean a million things. They need to find out what he means by “kosher”.

Definitely not using the same tray for pizza and hot dogs.

[JMHO]

No. Eid echad is ne'eman. The parents don't need to ask details.

So every Hashgacha is acceptable to you?

[avromie7]

So every Hashgacha is acceptable to you?

As long as it's a kosher eid echad.