Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[S209]

Rabbi Abadi allows it because he verified that the employees don't come in contact with it before it's pasteurized. I can't explain his sons reasoning

Rabbi Ralbag from Triangle K allows his hechsher to be put on all pasteurized grape juice with no supervision because grapes are heated to what he believes is enough for mevushal (with some decent reasoning IMHO) before they are initially crushed (Kodem Hamshacha). I have heard some question this because
A) R’ Moshe and most believe the temperature required is higher and
B) Some grapes grown in hot climates aren’t necessarily heated before pressing

[Darth1]

FWIU: The teshuva from R Moshe about pasteurization comes out that the temperature is high enough but there are those that argue that it is still missing other factors (eg allowing to decrease in volume and changing taste). All non-Israeli hashgachos are maikel to use flash pasturazation. The main job of the mashgiach is to make sure the pasteurizer got to the right temperature and if it doesn't he has to send it back in again. Some are makpid to have a mashgiach when they put the grapes into the crusher because the harvesters emptying into the crusher resembles hamshacha.

[ushdadude]

FWIU: The teshuva from R Moshe about pasteurization comes out that the temperature is high enough but there are those that argue that it is still missing other factors (eg allowing to decrease in volume and changing taste). All non-Israeli hashgachos are maikel to use flash pasturazation. The main job of the mashgiach is to make sure the pasteurizer got to the right temperature and if it doesn't he has to send it back in again. Some are makpid to have a mashgiach when they put the grapes into the crusher because the harvesters emptying into the crusher resembles hamshacha.

Kedem grape juice uses all those chumras

[Darth1]

Kedem grape juice uses all those chumras

FWIU that is not true. They have multiple plants, the one that is under the Eidah Hachareidus has all the chumros (along with only haveing frum yidden in the plant).

[avromie7]

FWIU that is not true. They have multiple plants, the one that is under the Eidah Hachareidus has all the chumros (along with only haveing frum yidden in the plant).

All Kedem employees are frum, and they heat it to 212.

[S209]

FWIU: The teshuva from R Moshe about pasteurization comes out that the temperature is high enough but there are those that argue that it is still missing other factors (eg allowing to decrease in volume and changing taste). All non-Israeli hashgachos are maikel to use flash pasturazation. The main job of the mashgiach is to make sure the pasteurizer got to the right temperature and if it doesn't he has to send it back in again. Some are makpid to have a mashgiach when they put the grapes into the crusher because the harvesters emptying into the crusher resembles hamshacha.

All true, but the temperatures R’ Moshe uses (175-190) are much higher than the ones R’ Ralbag uses (100-110). Assuming the other factors aren’t necessary (obviously there are the five shitos in the Rishonim to be taken into account etc.) his point would stand.

[TheAsh]

Rabbi Ralbag from Triangle K allows his hechsher to be put on all pasteurized grape juice with no supervision because grapes are heated to what he believes is enough for mevushal (with some decent reasoning IMHO) before they are initially crushed (Kodem Hamshacha). I have heard some question this because
A) R’ Moshe and most believe the temperature required is higher and
B) Some grapes grown in hot climates aren’t necessarily heated before pressing

He allows it on the grape juice itself? I thought it was the equipment only and he uses it betziruf other factors. That's way Motts is triangle k on some sizes.

[imayid2]

All true, but the temperatures R’ Moshe uses (175-190) are much higher than the ones R’ Ralbag uses (100-110).

This sounds strange. Pasteurization can be achieved at 100 degrees?

[aygart]

He allows it on the grape juice itself? I thought it was the equipment only and he uses it betziruf other factors. That's way Motts is triangle k on some sizes.

At some point there was equipment used in common with clam chowder or something like that.

[TheAsh]

Taam Kosher in RBS reliable?

(See attached - am not able to upload as photo)

[Moshe Green]

Taam Kosher in RBS reliable?

(See attached - am not able to upload as photo)

I don't know too much about it but the "Infamous" List hates it.
It's a house hechsher so the baal hamachshir is relying on his belief of the pizza place that they are trustworthy.

As an aside, there is no other pizza places with a national hechsher in your area?

[TheAsh]

I don't know too much about it but the "Infamous" List hates it.
It's a house hechsher so the baal hamachshir is relying on his belief of the pizza place that they are trustworthy.

As an aside, there is no other pizza places with a national hechsher in your area?

What's the infamous list?

[imayid2]

What's the infamous list?

Didn’t check but I assume he meant this

[TheAsh]

Updated (and reformatted) version (I don't vouch for anything here, only posting because a previous version was posted, and for my comments below).



Kind of ironic (if ignoring the top two) to find She'eris at the top right and BK on bottom left (in a list created by/for Anash of Lubavitch @aygart). While I am somewhat relieved by the fact BK doesn't mention Chabad in his symbol, everyone knows who he is, and unfortunately the consensus of experts in the field is that BK isn't good.

Also of note is the fact that a certain "Lubavitch" Hechsher is completely missing. Reminds me of a video of Motti Lipsker explaining why he carries three different brands of chicken (three different "Lubavitch" hashgochos) and the attitudes of various customers. This might tie into

Is OK above OU and Star K because they're Chabad? I dont think there's any actual other reason to prefer them in the field.

[rbs-g1.5]

Is OK above OU and Star K because they're Chabad? I dont think there's any actual other reason to prefer them in the field.

obviously , it  goes in line with the rest of the list. But please lets  not rehash this topic.........

[Moshe Green]

obviously , it  goes in line with the rest of the list. But please lets  not rehash this topic.........

+1 But all this aside:

Would you want to trust a Hechsher that got the lowest score of all Hechsheirim on a list?

[avromie7]

+1 But all this aside:

Would you want to trust a Hechsher that got the lowest score of all Hechsheirim on a list?

Why would an unsigned list using irrelevant parameters have any relevance to what you should or shouldn't eat?

[imayid2]

Why would an unsigned list using irrelevant parameters have any relevance to what you should or shouldn't eat?

It should prompt some qs why they are being deemed not acceptable at all by a kosher conscious list. Even if there is what to squabble about re different variables.

[yitzgar]

It should prompt some qs why they are being deemed not acceptable at all by a supposed kosher conscious list. Even if there is what to squabble about re different variables.

Until you know the author how do you know what the intent in making the list was?

[imayid2]

Until you know the author how do you know what the intent in making the list was?

A quick perview of the bottom category shows Hechsheirim which are well known to be unacceptable. So this list is clearly somewhat accurate. So I would want to know why it's being put in that category. And we have the answer right here:

It's a house hechsher so the baal hamachshir is relying on his belief of the pizza place that they are trustworthy.

Don't know anything about The List but it sure looks like a good rule of the thumb resource.