Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[yungermanchik]

Yes Rav Moshe is meikal on all bishul in factories.

Incorrect, he only says that we need not protest those who are matir, despite the fact that it is not a heter barur.
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=318

[imayid2]

Incorrect, he only says that we need not protest those who are matir, despite the fact that it is not a heter barur.
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=318

Incorrect, there is a letter he dictated (printed in רבבות אפרים?) in which he is straightforwardly meikal IIRC. I heard independently such from Rabbi Fuerst.

[yungermanchik]

Incorrect, there is a letter he dictated (printed in רבבות אפרים?) in which he is straightforwardly meikal IIRC. I heard independently such from Rabbi Fuerst.

I heard from the recipient of the original tshuva, his son, Rav Reuven, like I (and the tshuva) said. It is for that reason that his talmidim do not eat OU potato chips. (Because someone called and found out OU's policy despite the fact that Rav Moshe said that you're not required to ask.)

[imayid2]

I heard from the recipient of the original tshuva, his son, Rav Reuven, like I (and the tshuva) said.

Yet

Truthfully it’s not a contradiction. He held it was a big sevara to be meikal, that doesn’t mean he held that לכתחילה one should be somech on it.

[yelped]

I heard from the recipient of the original tshuva, his son, Rav Reuven, like I (and the tshuva) said. It is for that reason that his talmidim do not eat OU potato chips. (Because someone called and found out OU's policy despite the fact that Rav Moshe said that you're not required to ask.)

Potato chips has another component to it, I'm sure it has been discussed here already.

[aygart]

Yet

Truthfully it’s not a contradiction. He held it was a big sevara to be meikal, that doesn’t mean he held that לכתחילה one should be somech on it.

You highlighted the wrong part. The כתוב השלישי ויכריע ביניהם Is The very end right before he brings from מנחת יצחק

[imayid2]

You highlighted the wrong part. The כתוב השלישי ויכריע ביניהם Is The very end right before he brings from מנחת יצחק

I highlighted that for a specific reason.

Anyway, potato chips aren’t made in commercial machines? I guess he assumed not. I hear your solution, probably true.

[aygart]

I highlighted that for a specific reason.

Anyway, potato chips aren’t made in commercial machines? I guess he assumed not. I hear your solution, probably true.

No it is a big rectangular pot of oil with a conveyor belt going through it. It obviously has much more scale and automation but is basically the same as frying at home. Nothing far out like the direct steam injection he describes.

[aygart]

Isn’t that based on R’ Moshe? I seem to remember a shiur from Harav @aygart on this subject.

Steam is discussed much earlier than Rav Moshe. The OU will put the shita of Rav Moshe above together with those who are matir with steam to be matir.

[mevinyavin]

Great! This (out of date ZNT) just proves the general accuracy of the unsigned list .
ZNT Level two: Kehilos - USL Level five.

IIRC Kehillos was higher on USL on an older list. This makes sense (especially as the ZNT list is also older - I wonder where Kehillos is now), Rabbi Kuber was more approving about Kehillos before and less into it now.

[Moshe Green]

IIRC Kehillos was higher on USL on an older list. This makes sense (especially as the ZNT list is also older - I wonder where Kehillos is now), Rabbi Kuber was more approving about Kehillos before and less into it now.

I remember Kehillos as a small little Hechsher and then BOOM! all the restaurants started taking it... it just seems fishy to me... If they had such high standards then they wouldn't be such a draw...

[yfr bachur]

IIRC Kehillos was higher on USL on an older list. This makes sense (especially as the ZNT list is also older - I wonder where Kehillos is now), Rabbi Kuber was more approving about Kehillos before and less into it now.

Kehillos merged/was taken over by Belz, and therefore aquired many of the problems of belz

[mevinyavin]

I remember Kehillos as a small little Hechsher and then BOOM! all the restaurants started taking it... it just seems fishy to me... If they had such high standards then they wouldn't be such a draw...

IIRC (again) they simply capitalized on a string of restaurants that lost Rubin for technical reasons (but not Kashrus reasons). At least that was the case for the three stores by the Mir that lost Rubin and got Kehillos. At the time Rav Rubin was downsizing, then something changed and he started getting new restaurants again.

[Moshe Green]

IIRC (again) they simply capitalized on a string of restaurants that lost Rubin for technical reasons (but not Kashrus reasons). At least that was the case for the three stores by the Mir that lost Rubin and got Kehillos. At the time Rav Rubin was downsizing, then something changed and he started getting new restaurants again.

I understand that, but i've seen it in many places. Many new restaurants also went for Kehillos instead of Rubin...
And also, why did those places that lost Rubin not go for Landau, Sheiris, or Bedat"z? The answer is pretty obvious, the lower price of chicken/meat and the lower standards of required Kashrus.

[yfr bachur]

I understand that, but i've seen it in many places. Many new restaurants also went for Kehillos instead of Rubin...
And also, why did those places that lost Rubin not go for Landau, Sheiris, or Bedat"z? The answer is pretty obvious, the lower price of chicken/meat and the lower standards of required Kashrus.

I dont know of any resturants in JLM with either Landua or Sheiris (Aside from Sova bakery, but thats just because they get alltheir stuff from a central Landua plant)
Eida is significantly more expensive than other hechsherim.

[yfr bachur]

IIRC (again) they simply capitalized on a string of restaurants that lost Rubin for technical reasons (but not Kashrus reasons). At least that was the case for the three stores by the Mir that lost Rubin and got Kehillos. At the time Rav Rubin was downsizing, then something changed and he started getting new restaurants again.

Rubin wasnt downsizing beshita - Kehilos was the poretz geder that gave hechsherim to places that didn't want to be considerate of the residential neighborhood they were located in. (which is another reason not to touch them...)

[TheAsh]

I understand that, but i've seen it in many places. Many new restaurants also went for Kehillos instead of Rubin...
And also, why did those places that lost Rubin not go for Landau, Sheiris, or Bedat"z? The answer is pretty obvious, the lower price of chicken/meat and the lower standards of required Kashrus.

1) price

2) no hechsher on atmosphere. There are many places in central jlem who would be happy to get a badstz but still want to play goyish music, have no tzniyus standards for waitresses etc.

[Moshe Green]

1) price

Agreed.
And they charge less because:
Most probably they do less.
So its less of a Hechsher...

[TheAsh]

Agreed.
And they charge less because:
Most probably they do less.
So its less of a Hechsher...

Not necessarily at all. Some local chasidish BP hechsherim are very good and far cheaper than OU simply because they're more local.

[Moshe Green]

Not necessarily at all. Some local chasidish BP hechsherim are very good and far cheaper than OU simply because they're more local.

Kehillos is not local. It's a national Hechsher from Dan til Eilat.
A restaurateur wants mainly a Hechsher that will attract his clientele and also not drive him crazy.
Rubin is very Makpid that things are run the way they like it. (Heard first hand from someone who had them as their Rav Hamachshir)
I think we can safely assume that Kehillos does not.