Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[Alexsei]

Lo bashamyim hee, BDS"M is not calling with any questions. They work with the info available to you at the time.

Oh my mistake, back to סאכדעס then

[avromie7]

Oh my mistake, back to סאכדעס then

English?

[Alexsei]

English?

Literally "Sachdes" a nickname for "Hisachdus" (CRC Brooklyn)

[imayid2]

They allow non-glatt

Nu Nu. It's not like it's not kosher. Don't tell anyone who dosn't know and that'll solve any possible issue anyway ויאכלו ענוים וישבעו.

[aygart]

Define “on par”

I don't know what you are getting at. They have shortfalls in their standards. That is not done wishy washy thing like I don't know how fast they grew.

[imayid2]

I don't know what you are getting at. They have shortfalls in their standards. That is not done wishy washy thing like I don't know how fast they grew.

I don’t know what you’re not following. I was responding to a post that said that Kashrus and nutrition aren’t analogous, and that there isn’t a reason to specifically eat top hechsherim. This was a general statement and had nothing to do with wishy washy (which you are studiously pretending was the sole basis for ascribing non top tier status in this convo).

[EliJelly]

Do you get more gan eden for only eating from "top" hechsherim?

No timtum halev when eating tarfus under any hechsher as long you don't know or believe that they're mediocre, and no gan eden for sticking only to top hechsherim. Did I get this right?

[yfr bachur]

The most interesting thing about this last back and forth is that someone who does not eat Kehillos (me) is defending it against slurs from someone who does (Moshe Green) 

[yfr bachur]

Honestly, The reason I don't is bec I asked Rav Kuber... Not that I have any personal idea whats going on in the hechsher...Oh and the poretz geder part (picking up places that lost it bec they werent listening to rabbanim) was a reason i was leaning towards not using them anyway. (Which is the same reason I wont eat in Zalmans - belz was trying to get the "nightlife" on Shamgar back to something reasonable - (like what would be expected in any Frum residential neighborhood anywhere) - and Zalmans took out ads anouncing that since they are just out of the catchment area of kiryat belz they will be open till 2:30am...)
 

[Moshe Green]

The most interesting thing about this last back and forth is that someone who does not eat Kehillos (me) is defending it against slurs from someone who does (Moshe Green) 

I guess we both are fighting L'Shem Shamayim?

[Afrages6]

Honestly, The reason I don't is bec I asked Rav Kuber... Not that I have any personal idea whats going on in the hechsher...Oh and the poretz geder part (picking up places that lost it bec they werent listening to rabbanim) was a reason i was leaning towards not using them anyway. (Which is the same reason I wont eat in Zalmans - belz was trying to get the "nightlife" on Shamgar back to something reasonable - (like what would be expected in any Frum residential neighborhood anywhere) - and Zalmans took out ads anouncing that since they are just out of the catchment area of kiryat belz they will be open till 2:30am...)

By nightlife you mean people eating out and getting food late at night?

[imayid2]

Objection! Hearsay, your honor.

The reason I don't is bec I asked Rav Kuber

[avromie7]

No timtum halev when eating tarfus under any hechsher as long you don't know or believe that they're mediocre, and no gan eden for sticking only to top hechsherim. Did I get this right?

I take issue with the way you're labeling some hechsherim as "mediocre", but otherwise this is correct.

[imayid2]

I take issue with the way you're labeling some hechsherim as "mediocre", but otherwise this is correct.

שלחן ערוך חושן משפט סימן רל״ד
One who buys and consumes meat which is later found to have been treif, he can demand his money back from the seller. This is by all indications talking about a case where there is a very valid עד אחד נאמן איסורין in place.
 
Notes the סמ״ע that one reason for this is because דאין אכילת האוכל מחשב לו הנאה ואדרבה מצער הוא לו שעבר על איסור דאורייתא באכילתן אף שהיה שוגג.

[Afrages6]

No timtum halev when eating tarfus under any hechsher as long you don't know or believe that they're mediocre, and no gan eden for sticking only to top hechsherim. Did I get this right?

Reb Elchanan speaks this out very clearly. It honestly boggles my mind how self proclaimed “Kashrus experts” go around voicing their own opinions on hechsherim unsolicited.

[imayid2]

Reb Elchanan speaks this out very clearly. It honestly boggles my mind how self proclaimed “Kashrus experts” go around voicing their own opinions on hechsherim unsolicited.

It boggles my mind when self proclaimed schar veonash experts go around voicing their own opinions about schar veonash unsolicited

[imayid2]

Reb Elchanan speaks this out very clearly.

Where?

[EliJelly]

I take issue with the way you're labeling some hechsherim as "mediocre", but otherwise this is correct.

Whether or not this is the only interpretation of Reb Moshe's psak, let me just say that this is a VERY unconventional approach towards kashrus and certainly isn't something that is being followed by any serious kashrus expert. To whoever in the kashrus field you're listening, I particularly heard that numerous times from Rav Elephant, one should do utmost due diligence when it comes to hechsherim. Many do have subpar standards which most would not rely on. Many simply don't have the knowledge/capability/manpower to run an effective operation regardless as well intended they might be. Chezkas Kashrus doesn't mean that every well intended yid who wouldn't knowingly serve tarfus is somehow magically transformed into a kashrus mumcha in today's extremely complicated kashrus field.

Of course, this doesn't warrant spreading unsubstantiated rumors based on fuzzy evidence and imaginary facts, but you have been pretty vocal here with your unconditional chezkas kashrus mehalech. I believe that a disclaimer is in order that this is all based on a very unique attitude towards kashrus you personally follow, which isn't endorsed by any serious kashrus expert today.

Regarding timtum halev, as others have pointed out, this is also not a position most would agree to.

[avromie7]

Whether or not this is the only interpretation of Reb Moshe's psak, let me just say that this is a VERY unconventional approach towards kashrus and certainly isn't something that is being followed by any serious kashrus expert. To whoever in the kashrus field you're listening, I particularly heard that numerous times from Rav Elephant, one should do utmost due diligence when it comes to hechsherim. Many do have subpar standards which most would not rely on. Many simply don't have the knowledge/capability/manpower to run an effective operation regardless as well intended they might be. Chezkas Kashrus doesn't mean that every well intended yid who wouldn't knowingly serve tarfus is somehow magically transformed into a kashrus mumcha in today's extremely complicated kashrus field.

Of course, this doesn't warrant spreading unsubstantiated rumors based on fuzzy evidence and imaginary facts, but you have been pretty vocal here with your unconditional chezkas kashrus mehalech. I believe that a disclaimer is in order that this is all based on a very unique attitude towards kashrus you personally follow, which isn't endorsed by any serious kashrus expert today.

Regarding timtum halev, as others have pointed out, this is also not a position most would agree to.

I take issue with a few of your points:

• Your insinuation without evidence that there is an alternative understanding of Rav Moshe's psak, there is no disagreement among his talmidim.
• Calling the poskei hador from the past 2 generations "unconventional" in a derogatory manner.
• Your definition of a "serious kashrus expert" is someone who goes around telling people which hashgachos they shouldn't use, but there are other experts who don't. (If @moko shows up again, he can verify the one I have in mind)
• You give more credibility to "kashrus experts" than halacha experts.
• Do most people ask "kashrus experts" because that's what they were taught by their Rebbe or Rav, or because that's what everyone does and it makes them feel more frum to say they only eat "top tier hechsherim"

None of this is directed at anyone in specific, and I'm not trying to demean any kashrus experts.

Re:Timtum halev, it's well known that Rav Moshe said he's arguing on the Meshech Chachmah

[imayid2]

I take issue with a few of your points:

• Your insinuation without evidence that there is an alternative understanding of Rav Moshe's psak, there is no disagreement among his talmidim.

Nothing about what he held about straight עד אחד should tell you what the הלכה is when an עד אחד was right about there being a חזקה/רוב in place, but the רוב/חזקה/מירתת failed. Putting all עניני הכשרים under straight עד אחד territory makes no sense at all.

• Calling the poskei hador from the past 2 generations "unconventional" in a derogatory manner.

There is nothing derogatory about noting that his approach as presented is definitely a  דעת יחיד.

• Your definition of a "serious kashrus expert" is someone who goes around telling people which hashgachos they shouldn't use, but there are other experts who don't.
  

On what grounds do you say this? Rabbi Elephant is that type of person?