Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

Re:Timtum halev, it's well known that Rav Moshe said he's arguing on the Meshech Chachmah

The shach and taz are clear that there is טמטום even when it is באונס. Regardless, according to numerous achronim a failure of עד אחד would be an עבירה בשוגג. I don’t think anyone disagrees that there is טמטום when it’s classified a שוגג.

[EliJelly]

I take issue with a few of your points:

• Your insinuation without evidence that there is an alternative understanding of Rav Moshe's psak, there is no disagreement among his talmidim.
• Calling the poskei hador from the past 2 generations "unconventional" in a derogatory manner.
• Your definition of a "serious kashrus expert" is someone who goes around telling people which hashgachos they shouldn't use, but there are other experts who don't. (If @moko shows up again, he can verify the one I have in mind)
• You give more credibility to "kashrus experts" than halacha experts.
• Do most people ask "kashrus experts" because that's what they were taught by their Rebbe or Rav, or because that's what everyone does and it makes them feel more frum to say they only eat "top tier hechsherim"

None of this is directed at anyone in specific, and I'm not trying to demean any kashrus experts.

I was just stating the facts, Reb Moshe's enormous gadlus notwithstanding. This isn't followed or advised by anyone familiar with the kashrus field today (besides one "expert" you won't name), and the esteemed RY you follow, as a gadol as he is, seem to be a outlier in this regard. Also, Rabbi Elephant will NEVER mention a name of hashgachos people shouldn't use, nor will any respected Rav hamachshir do publicly. The notion that people deciding on their own to be makpid on top tier hecsherim is just to feel good, as if this isn't something that halacha experts are always promoting is just ridiculous. A sincere Rov will always guide and promote to look for the best hechsher possible, and not to rely blindly on everything that has a "Badatz" symbol on it. 

Re:Timtum halev, it's well known that Rav Moshe said he's arguing on the Meshech Chachmah

As well as on the Chasam Sofer, the Ohr H'chaim, what he brings from The Arizal, and others too. On Timtum Halev matters they have the final say.

My point is that despite the fact that you may and you should follow your Rebbeim, you gotta realize that most people do look for the best hechsherim they can get. Most aren't okay with applying chezkas kashrus to the ability of guaranteeing top kosher products in today's extremely complex and advanced kashrus world. And most people do acknowledge that there are "mediocre" hechsherim out there which they'd want to avoid. Harping time and again with this דעת יחידאה just makes no sense at all.

[EliJelly]

The shach and taz are clear that there is טמטום even when it is באונס. Regardless, according to numerous achronim a failure of עד אחד would be an עבירה בשוגג. I don’t think anyone disagrees that there is טמטום when it’s classified a שוגג.

The Chassam Sofer also clearly understands the Rema of Timtum Halev even by an onas gamur. He's talking about someone selling tarfus instead of kosher, despite every yid has a chezkas kashrus.
 


https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=19918#p=87&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

[Darth1]

The only concrete thing I heard about Kehillos was a chashuva Rav asked to go see there shechita a couple of years ago (When more people deemed them on a top standard.) and they were happy to give him a guided tour. He tried again a couple times with in the past year and they are not allowing him into the shlachtous.

Did you hear it from him, or are you just repeating the word on the street. If the latter, this is also LH.

Afaik this is all R Kuber says about kehilos. In general he is not one to bash and just beats around the bush...

[yfr bachur]

I can verify that this is RK's current position on kehilos.

[JMHO]

I can verify that this is RK's current position on kehilos.

What is?

[imayid2]

The Chassam Sofer also clearly understands the Rema of Timtum Halev even by an onas gamur. He's talking about someone selling tarfus instead of kosher, despite every yid has a chezkas kashrus.
 


https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=19918#p=87&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

Interesting because the sma he quotes considers it a shogeg. Seems the C"s tweaked it to answer the kashya he's busy with there. Need to check what he says elsewhere about an aveirah caused by false testimony.

[TheAsh]

I'm not familiar with the israeli hechsherim you mentioned, and I don't know how quickly CupK and IKC grew, but what right does anyone have to start spreading rumors based on conjecture?

Would you eat IKC or CupK?  Why not?

[Essen est zich]

Would you eat IKC or CupK?  Why not?

Cup k is Steinberg and is not reliable.

Ikc is not reliable either.

Again some items may be permissible based on not needing a hechser, but any restaurant I would stay away.

[TheAsh]

Cup k is Steinberg and is not reliable.

Ikc is not reliable either.

Again some items may be permissible based on not needing a hechser, but any restaurant I would stay away.

I was asking u/avromie7 because of his reliance on Rav Moshe that one needn't check out hechsherim.

[avromie7]

Would you eat IKC or CupK?  Why not?

Fair question. The answer is no. They very openly aren't makpid on things we require. The same reason I don't eat everything from Triangle K or OU tuna.

In general anyone in the business of certifying vegan restaurants is a red flag, as they're usually not careful about bugs and bishul yisroel. For example, IKC claims the vegan restaurants make sure they don't have bugs because they're "makpid" not to eat bugs.

Disclaimer: I'm not able to define exactly where to draw the line, so when it's nogaya I ask.

[imayid2]

Fair question. The answer is no. They very openly aren't makpid on things we require. The same reason I don't eat everything from Triangle K or OU tuna.

In general anyone in the business of certifying vegan restaurants is a red flag, as they're usually not careful about bugs and bishul yisroel. For example, IKC claims the vegan restaurants make sure they don't have bugs because they're "makpid" not to eat bugs.

Disclaimer: I'm not able to define exactly where to draw the line, so when it's nogaya I ask.

This is only an issue if you know that they aren’t makpid. But if I’m understanding correctly this shita there is absolutely no reason to inquire about these policies if you happen to be clueless.

[avromie7]

This is only an issue if you know that they aren’t makpid. But if I’m understanding correctly this shita there is absolutely no reason to inquire about these policies if you happen to be clueless.

There is another issue of who has ne'emanus, but I'm not going to have a public discussion about it

[menotyou]

I found a complete baby bee in unfiltered honey (no more, but it was the last 1/16 of the jar) apparently it is not that unusual, but this one has a hechsher. Anyone have any insight on if this could be a potential reason to avoid? I don’t think it’s very practical to check but if they actually do require straining I don’t think it happened because there were large crystals inside the remaining honey that I checked.

[JMHO]

I found a complete baby bee in unfiltered honey (no more, but it was the last 1/16 of the jar) apparently it is not that unusual, but this one has a hechsher. Anyone have any insight on if this could be a potential reason to avoid? I don’t think it’s very practical to check but if they actually do require straining I don’t think it happened because there were large crystals inside the remaining honey that I checked.

Don't eat the bee

[menotyou]

I found a complete baby bee in unfiltered honey (no more, but it was the last 1/16 of the jar) apparently it is not that unusual, but this one has a hechsher. Anyone have any insight on if this could be a potential reason to avoid? I don’t think it’s very practical to check but if they actually do require straining I don’t think it happened because there were large crystals inside the remaining honey that I checked.

Anyone have any expertise in checking that have found issues with raw honey? I would like to know how if they are filtering the honey large particles still exist inside? Are they putting them back in to make it similar to unfiltered?

[av83]

There is a Teshuva from R' Moshe that if one has an Akum in the house with no Yotzei Vnichnas then all the Keilim become Assur. Does anyone have any further Mareh Mekomos on this inyan?

[Alexsei]

There is a Teshuva from R' Moshe that if one has an Akum in the house with no Yotzei Vnichnas then all the Keilim become Assur. Does anyone have any further Mareh Mekomos on this inyan?

https://beinenu.com/system/files/alonim/51_05_77.pdf

בביתו של הישראל
ועי' ברמ"א )שם( שפסק ע"פ המרדכי הנ"ל דלכתחלה יש ליזהר בכל ענין, אפילו בעבדים ושפחות העובדי כוכבים שבבית
ישראל, שלא לייחד כלים שלנו אצלן, שמא ישתמשו בהן בדברים האסורים. וכן מבואר באו"ה )כלל לג דין טז( דאפילו בביתו
דמירתת, הכלי נאסר. ועי' באג"מ )יו"ד ח"א סי' סא( שכתב שהדין כן אף כשמשאירים משרתת בבית שאין מלאכת הבישול
מוטלת עליה. ולפי"ז י"ל שה"ה איש מקצוע עכו"ם הנמצא בבית ישראל דיש לחוש בזה. )ושמא יש לחלק דאיש מקצוע
שאני שאינו משמש בבית כמשרתת, ועיין(.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=917&st=&pgnum=101

[imayid2]

There is a Teshuva from R' Moshe that if one has an Akum in the house with no Yotzei Vnichnas then all the Keilim become Assur. Does anyone have any further Mareh Mekomos on this inyan?

שבט הקהתי ח״ו סימן רפא
מנחת אשר ח״ב סימן נ״א

[yfr bachur]

One of the coolest things to see coming out of the war is the restaurants in TA and other places that are usually treif lemihadrin kashering and getting a hechsher so their food will be eaten by datim serving n the army/volunteering in other positions...