Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[avromie7]

Lol. I want to eat salty fish on Pesach and have some bread (less than a kzayis) to counteract the saltiness, may I?

That would it a minimum be achshivai

[chinagel]

That would it a minimum be achshivai

So if you need to say a bracha isn't relevant?

[PlatinumGuy]

So if you need to say a bracha isn't relevant?

Yet if medicine is food, why don't you make a Bracha?

[imayid2]

Do you make a Bracha before consuming it?

It is not simple at all not to.
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/59289/does-one-say-a-beracha-on-medication/59304#59304

While many don’t, the svaros don’t permit consuming non kosher which hasn’t gotten to being נפסל מאכילת גר.

[chinagel]

Yet if medicine is food, why don't you make a Bracha?

If bread is food, why are there times you don't make a bracha?

[PlatinumGuy]

If bread is food, why are there times you don't make a bracha?

In the case you cited, you do make a Bracha. שהכל on the fish includes the bread which is secondary to it (טפל).

[yungermanchik]

What is the source for this criteria?

Something which is just under נפסל מאכילת גר or כלב is not something any sane person would have a taava for IME.

נפסל is only a criteria when it started off as a food. It is much harder to lose a status (in halacha) than to get it to begin with.

[chinagel]

In the case you cited, you do make a Bracha. שהכל on the fish includes the bread which is secondary to it (טפל).

Except that's not the reason.

[aygart]

Would any sane person have a taivah to consume it, if not for the medicinal benefits.

Go check the candy aisle

[imayid2]

נפסל is only a criteria when it started off as a food. It is much harder to lose a status (in halacha) than to get it to begin with.

Why would the chametz or tarfus in medicine not be considered “started off as food”?

[PlatinumGuy]

Except that's not the reason.

ברכות מד ע״א
מַתְנִי׳ הֵבִיאוּ לְפָנָיו מָלִיחַ תְּחִלָּה וּפַת עִמּוֹ — מְבָרֵךְ עַל הַמָּלִיחַ וּפוֹטֵר אֶת הַפַּת, שֶׁהַפַּת טְפֵלָה לוֹ. זֶה הַכְּלָל: כׇּל שֶׁהוּא עִיקָּר וְעִמּוֹ טְפֵלָה — מְבָרֵךְ עַל הָעִיקָּר וּפוֹטֵר אֶת הַטְּפֵלָה.


https://www.sefaria.org.il/Berakhot.44a.1?lang=he

[aygart]

Why would the chametz or tarfus in medicine not be considered “started off as food”?

For the original case discussed the sweetener is the exact same one used in many foods.

[chinagel]

ברכות מד ע״א
מַתְנִי׳ הֵבִיאוּ לְפָנָיו מָלִיחַ תְּחִלָּה וּפַת עִמּוֹ — מְבָרֵךְ עַל הַמָּלִיחַ וּפוֹטֵר אֶת הַפַּת, שֶׁהַפַּת טְפֵלָה לוֹ. זֶה הַכְּלָל: כׇּל שֶׁהוּא עִיקָּר וְעִמּוֹ טְפֵלָה — מְבָרֵךְ עַל הָעִיקָּר וּפוֹטֵר אֶת הַטְּפֵלָה.


https://www.sefaria.org.il/Berakhot.44a.1?lang=he

I stand corrected.
I was under the impression it was like tasting food https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x1039 . I guess that would be a better example of the same point.

[yungermanchik]

Go check the candy aisle

Yep, not one of them says compare to Tylenol.

[PlatinumGuy]

I stand corrected.
I was under the impression it was like tasting food https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x1039 . I guess that would be a better example of the same point.

Tasting Chometz would indeed not be אכילה, the only problem is that Chometz on Pesach is also אסור בהנאה. However, many poskim hold there is no אחשביה by הנאה, only by אכילה.

[imayid2]

Tasting Chometz would indeed not be אכילה, the only problem is that Chometz on Pesach is also אסור בהנאה. However, many poskim hold there is no אחשביה by הנאה, only by אכילה.

טעימה of all issurim is assur שמא יבוא לאכלו. Even if it’s not אסור בהנאה.

אחשיב׳ is only a shmuz for something נפסל מאכילת כלב.

[PlatinumGuy]

טעימה of all issurim is assur שמא יבוא לאכלו. Even if it’s not אסור בהנאה.

CMIIW but in other issurim that is דרבנן, whereas tasting Chometz on Pesach would be דאורייתא bc of הנאה, and thus there would be no takana דרבנן on something that is already אסור מדאורייתא.

אחשיב׳ is only a shmuz for something נפסל מאכילת כלב.

There are times/opinions אחשיביה is relevant also for שיעורים.

[imayid2]

CMIIW but in other issurim that is דרבנן, whereas tasting Chometz on Pesach would be דאורייתא bc of הנאה, and thus there would be no takana דרבנן on something that is already אסור מדאורייתא.

This is a חידוש but practically I don’t see a נפקמ״נ

There are times/opinions אחשיביה is relevant also for שיעורים.

What are you referring to?

[PlatinumGuy]

What are you referring to?

https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php/מיקרופדיה_תלמודית:אחשביה#cite_note-6

[PlatinumGuy]

There is no reason that it should lose its status of food just because you had those few milligrams if you would take those milligrams of medication and bake it into a loaf of bread, would you be allowed to eat that loaf of bread on pesach?

Conceptually added milligrams can definitely have enough impact on flavor to make bread muttar on Pesach