Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[avromie7]

This is quite a michshol. Do we know what the hechsherim have to say?
AFAIK, the hechsher only works if the entire supply chain until the final end consumer is under jewish ownership/control, which the hechsher is definitely not certifing.

I'm 95%+ sure it's a frum seller. Check the address and the other entities at that address.

[avromie7]

Yup. People don’t realize that this is not a mainstream opinion at all.

According to their “determination”, one should never make a bracha on any factory produced keilim. Does anyone abide by that?

(I believe Rabbi Ekstein has a teshuva about this subject in his recently published teshuvos)

Yes. I don't make a bracha as per a psak from RSG bsheim R' Reuven Feinstein.

[aygart]

Yup. People don’t realize that this is not a mainstream opinion at all.

According to their “determination”, one should never make a bracha on any factory produced keilim. Does anyone abide by that?

(I believe Rabbi Ekstein has a teshuva about this subject in his recently published teshuvos)

There are definitely those in EY who buy cheap proprietor made items from Arabs to include whenever they toivel things.

[yfr bachur]

FTFY
Nivdak means they checked something

I know what I wrote. And unfortunately a real true case, as I heard first hand from a mashgiach (my shver) who was supervising an ajoining line/run in a Chinese factory.

[aygart]

I know what I wrote. And unfortunately a real true case, as I heard first hand from a mashgiach (my shver) who was supervising an ajoining line/run in a Chinese factory.

I am sure such cases happen, but that is not comparable to this case.

[EliJelly]

Yes. The OK says that it doesn’t need to be toiveled even if it passed through non Jewish hands.

Most Rabbis would not be ok with this. Problem is that many don’t realize this and don’t think to ask their LOR.

From the OK's website.

There are varying opinions within Jewish law whether a utensil manufactured under Jewish ownership and is transferred to a non-Jewish retailer (for the sole purpose of re-selling it), requires Tevila (immersion). The Rabbinic authorities at OK Kosher have determined that it does not. When the Betty Crocker Pizza Maker Plus bearing the OK symbol is purchased at Bingo, it is acceptable without Tevila according to all opinions.

Is that the case?

[zh cohen]

Is that the case?

Why not? It was never owned by a goy.

[avromie7]

From the OK's website.

Is that the case?

No. The OK is just lying to you 

[lover of truth]

kitzur shulchan aruch paskens that factory owned by yid with non jewish workers require tevila
interesting all the ungrisch hechsheirim write אין צריך טבילה  and are not makpid on this

[imayid2]

Yes. I don't make a bracha as per a psak from RSG bsheim R' Reuven Feinstein.

Don’t know what you heard but you are possibly confusing the unrelated opinion of Rav Moshe in Igros that a bracha should not be made when a Jewish made product was purchased by a non Jew and then sold to a Yisroel.

[imayid2]

From the OK's website.

Is that the case?

This depends on the setup of how the arrangement is setup to be considered “Jewish owned”. It’s possible that not everyone would be comfortable considering it sufficiently such, depending on the details.

[EliJelly]

This depends on the setup of how the arrangement is setup to be considered “Jewish owned”. It’s possible that not everyone would be comfortable considering it sufficiently such, depending on the details.

Precisely my question. I've relied on it but I know some are machmir to toivel anyway, so I wonder whether that is based on some educated known disagreeing opinions. Not on the ensured Jewish distribution chain when sold at Bingo (No, I don't suspect the OK/Bingo to lie on that), but whether the necessary Jewish ownership in the production stage has the process/kinyanim that is relied upon according to everyone.

[avromie7]

Don’t know what you heard but you are possibly confusing the unrelated opinion of Rav Moshe in Igros that a bracha should not be made when a Jewish made product was purchased by a non Jew and then sold to a Yisroel.

I'm certain I'm not confusing it. He told me that although R Moshe says you don't need to be choshesh that a Jew manufactured everything, R Reuven said the metzius changed. That teshuva would be why you can't buy from a goy and make bracha.

[imayid2]

I'm certain I'm not confusing it. He told me that although R Moshe says you don't need to be choshesh that a Jew manufactured everything, R Reuven said the metzius changed. That teshuva would be why you can't buy from a goy and make bracha.

As I suspected you are talking about an unrelated issue of not making a bracha when it started off being Jewish owned.

My point was that according to the reasoning of the OK, even if you know for sure that it was manufactured by a goy you should not be able to make a bracha, or even need to toivel it at all for that matter.

[avromie7]

My point was that according to the reasoning of the OK, even if you know for sure that it was manufactured by a goy you should not be able to make a bracha, or even need to toivel it at all for that matter.

I don't understand how you see that

[imayid2]

I don't understand how you see that

If you read through their stuff you’ll see that they are saying that the pizza maker doesn’t need tevilla since the goy who owned it only owned it for the purpose of resale, and had no intention of ever using it.

[imayid2]

also would never admittedly say on any product it's good with the national hechsherim.

Who does?

Rabbi Fishbane listed a number of items that make no difference whether the hashgocha is heimish, and some which national brands are superior. Rabbi Babad agreed.
https://torahanytime.com/lectures/336250

[avromie7]

If you read through their stuff you’ll see that they are saying that the pizza maker doesn’t need tevilla since the goy who owned it only owned it for the purpose of resale, and had no intention of ever using it.

That means if it's manufactured by a Jew and resold by a goy. This wouldn't apply if it's manufactured by a goy.

[imayid2]

That means if it's manufactured by a Jew and resold by a goy. This wouldn't apply if it's manufactured by a goy.

No reason it should mean that. They say its not considered כלי אכילה because of that sevara. Therefore, who manufactured it should be irrelevant.

[EliJelly]

Rabbi Fishbane listed a number of items that make no difference whether the hashgocha is heimish, and some which national brands are superior. Rabbi Babad agreed.
https://torahanytime.com/lectures/336250

Thanks for sharing! Was interesting listening to, and I appreciated the transparency of both.