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Please keep this thread strictly for Kashrus questions and discussions, please see the links below for the appropriate threads on related topics:

All discussions related to TEVILAS KEILIM
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=139258

All discussions related to HALACHA AND TREIFOS
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285

All discussions related to INFESTATION, BEDIKAS TOLAIM ETC.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=133640

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source


cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list


« Last edited by Alexsei on February 10, 2025, 01:09:33 PM »

Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 1371110 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7160 on: January 08, 2025, 03:23:12 PM »
I spoke to someone at the ou. They said that even if legally it's considered non-dairy which means there is no lactose, it can still be dairy as per Jewish law.
ETA: it had an OU-D.
That's why most Non-Dairy Coffee Creamers are milchig, they have sodium caseinate. This doesn't have any caseinates listed in the ingredients. The only thing I can think of is it's in the Natural Flavors. It would also have to be enough or important enough that it isn't battul.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7161 on: January 08, 2025, 03:46:50 PM »
This product is almost certainly non dairy according to halacha.
I'll confirm shortly.
Regarding the response, I have my theory....

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7162 on: January 08, 2025, 04:16:07 PM »
Anyone know anything about ORC Kosher (Rabbi Traub)? I’ve never seen it before. @moko
he certifies what we consider gevinas akum

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7163 on: January 08, 2025, 06:44:26 PM »
A family member came home with these. It does show its OU-D but a common thing people tend to do is flip to the back of the product and read theough the ingredients and look to see if there's any milk ingredients. While this is showing may contain milk, though it doesn't have any milk in the ingredient list.

I advised them to reach out to the OU to confirm before eating it. They were informed by the OU it is indeed dairy.
So 2 points to this post. Why not put the milk as an ingredient vs just may contain if it actually has milk in it? Or at any given point they can change the recipe?
   And lastly to avoid someone else making the same mistake with this product and assuming it's only DE in fact while it's true kosher status is Dairy.







Likely  they are halachicly pareve but are produced on equipment shared with dairy chocolate which isn’t cleaned in between. They are telling you it is “dairy” because there is mamashus, not just kaylim. That’s what I’d assume unless hearing from the RC otherwise. The labels are a pretty accurate way of assessing DE status.

Offline myi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7164 on: January 08, 2025, 07:08:02 PM »
Likely  they are halachicly pareve but are produced on equipment shared with dairy chocolate which isn’t cleaned in between. They are telling you it is “dairy” because there is mamashus, not just kaylim. That’s what I’d assume unless hearing from the RC otherwise. The labels are a pretty accurate way of assessing DE status.
Interesting.
 That would effectively make it kind of hard to determine from the product ingredients alone whether a product is D or DE, assuming it says may contain milk on that product. And would require you to reach out before consuming any product that displays an OU-D and says may contain milk.
As it can become cross contaminated from previous Dairy runs.

I guess that proves this comment to be true to some extent.
The easiest way for people to avoid making mistakes is for them to stop assuming they'll be able to ascertain kashrus status from ingredients.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2025, 07:13:07 PM by myi »
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Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7165 on: January 08, 2025, 07:11:03 PM »
If you know what your looking at, the labels are a pretty accurate way of assessing DE status.
ftfy

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7166 on: January 08, 2025, 07:32:24 PM »
Interesting.
 That would effectively make it kind of hard to determine from the product ingredients alone whether a product is D or DE, assuming it says may contain milk on that product. And would require you to reach out before consuming any product that displays an OU-D and says may contain milk.
As it can become cross contaminated from previous Dairy runs.

I guess that proves this comment to be true to some extent.
It’s pretty easy to determine if it’s halachicly dairy or pareve, which is what counts. Cross contamination is batul and irrelevant from a halachik standpoint.

Offline myi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7167 on: January 08, 2025, 07:52:37 PM »
It’s pretty easy to determine if it’s halachicly dairy or pareve, which is what counts. Cross contamination is batul and irrelevant from a halachik standpoint.
Then I'm curious to know the reason behind this kind ice cream bar as to why its dairy?  Assuming the ingredients are not dairy then I would assume as to what you mentioned about mamashsus.( I would think they clean each and every surface between the Run of a different product.)
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7168 on: January 08, 2025, 08:19:17 PM »
Then I'm curious to know the reason behind this kind ice cream bar as to why its dairy?  Assuming the ingredients are not dairy then I would assume as to what you mentioned about mamashsus.( I would think they clean each and every surface between the Run of a different product.)
I think there are two reasons why this may be labeled dairy.
1. The chocolate listed is produced on shared equipment which isn’t being cleaned in between dairy and non dairy chocolate. I don’t think this is uncommon in chocolate factories who aren’t producing dairy free chocolate.
2. “Other natural flavors” may contain a dairy component.

In both cases they’d be halachikly pareve.

Offline chessman1

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7169 on: January 08, 2025, 08:33:11 PM »
he certifies what we consider gevinas akum

To his credit, he's transparent about what he certifies with respect to cheese if someone inquires.

Offline Saulius

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7170 on: January 09, 2025, 03:23:04 AM »
I heard that in any production where chocolate is an ingredient, water can’t be used for kashering because even the tiniest bit left behind will ruin the whole batch. Instead, they use fruit juice to kasher the equipment.

A Rav told me to avoid certain brands of chocolate liquor because of this and to stick only to those made in factories that are kosher year-round.

Is using fruit juice instead of water a halachic leniency, or is it considered a proper solution? Would love to hear your thoughts or any sources on this.

Offline TheAsh

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7171 on: January 09, 2025, 09:04:26 AM »
They can't put milk in the ingredients if milk is not an ingredient. That doesn't mean that one of the other ingredients isn't dairy.

The easiest way for people to avoid making mistakes is for them to stop assuming they'll be able to ascertain kashrus status from ingredients.

(ETA: sorry, didn't mean for this to sound snarky.)

Rabbi Yonatan Halevy of Shiviti has a Facebook group where he determines kashrus based on ingredients. He has a sefer which he claims backs him up. He holds of bittul lechatchila if done by a goy and matters natural flavors based on rov being kosher unless otherwise verified  Curious what the Halachic arguments against him are.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7172 on: January 09, 2025, 09:23:40 AM »
Rabbi Yonatan Halevy of Shiviti has a Facebook group where he determines kashrus based on ingredients. He has a sefer which he claims backs him up. He holds of bittul lechatchila if done by a goy and matters natural flavors based on rov being kosher unless otherwise verified  Curious what the Halachic arguments against him are.
First we’d need to know if he actually knows what he’s talking about in regards to ingredients. But besides that, what about keilim? What about עבידא לטעמא?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7173 on: January 09, 2025, 09:51:06 AM »
Rabbi Yonatan Halevy of Shiviti has a Facebook group where he determines kashrus based on ingredients. He has a sefer which he claims backs him up. He holds of bittul lechatchila if done by a goy and matters natural flavors based on rov being kosher unless otherwise verified  Curious what the Halachic arguments against him are.
Rabbi Abadi has one too. It's run by his son's and talmidim. https://learn.oheltorah.com/
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7174 on: January 09, 2025, 10:21:54 AM »
First we’d need to know if he actually knows what he’s talking about in regards to ingredients. But besides that, what about keilim? What about עבידא לטעמא?
From his shul newsletter (https://www.kshsd.org/newsletter):
On the morning of the 14th of Nissan, meaning this year (5784) which falls out on Monday morning, one must eliminate Chametz before the last time to do so arrives. All Chametz must be burnt (or renounced), and sold by this time.

The Mitzvah is to get rid of the Chametz - not burn it, necessarily.

The following options are suggested for those who cannot burn Chametz:

1. Donate to the poor, homeless, or non-Jewish organization that helps provide food for the needy.
OR
2. Discard in the black trash cans outside, as they become city property.


Online Just A Jew

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7175 on: January 09, 2025, 10:34:51 AM »
Rabbi Yonatan Halevy of Shiviti has a Facebook group where he determines kashrus based on ingredients. He has a sefer which he claims backs him up. He holds of bittul lechatchila if done by a goy and matters natural flavors based on rov being kosher unless otherwise verified  Curious what the Halachic arguments against him are.

Aside from what imayid2 posted, I was referring to the general public. Your average person has no idea what they're looking at or what to look for.
Freedom of the press is alive at the US Mint.
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Offline TheAsh

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7176 on: January 09, 2025, 11:01:14 AM »
From his shul newsletter (https://www.kshsd.org/newsletter):
On the morning of the 14th of Nissan, meaning this year (5784) which falls out on Monday morning, one must eliminate Chametz before the last time to do so arrives. All Chametz must be burnt (or renounced), and sold by this time.

The Mitzvah is to get rid of the Chametz - not burn it, necessarily.

The following options are suggested for those who cannot burn Chametz:

1. Donate to the poor, homeless, or non-Jewish organization that helps provide food for the needy.
OR
2. Discard in the black trash cans outside, as they become city property.

What's the point of this quote?
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7177 on: January 09, 2025, 11:06:06 AM »
I heard that in any production where chocolate is an ingredient, water can’t be used for kashering because even the tiniest bit left behind will ruin the whole batch. Instead, they use fruit juice to kasher the equipment.

A Rav told me to avoid certain brands of chocolate liquor because of this and to stick only to those made in factories that are kosher year-round.

Is using fruit juice instead of water a halachic leniency, or is it considered a proper solution? Would love to hear your thoughts or any sources on this.

Been discussed elsewhere a few times. Anything other than water is not a לכתחילה, clear Rema in O"C 452. Many do with water, others rely on shaar mashkin like oil, and even more lenient hechsherim kasher with a chocolate run. 

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7178 on: January 09, 2025, 11:10:12 AM »
What's the point of this quote?
The point is to show that Rabbi Yonatan Halevy doesn't conform to standard customs/Mesorah and should probably be avoided if one has Kashrus questions.

Mesorah tells us that we should burn the Chometz.
Mesorah also tells us not to give free presents to non-Jews without good reason.

I'm sure he's a fine person. He just does things differently than the mainstream and seems to have his own path.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #7179 on: January 09, 2025, 11:20:01 AM »
Been discussed elsewhere a few times. Anything other than water is not a לכתחילה, clear Rema in O"C 452. Many do with water, others rely on shaar mashkin like oil, and even more lenient hechsherim kasher with a chocolate run.
To clarify, the Rama allows other drinks but not lechatchila. To allow chocolate is a big chiddush and not universally accepted because it's not a liquid at room temp. The OU will not allow kashering with chocolate.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.