Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[jye]

I have a few questions for someone with this experience or knowledge (i.e., how can they kasher 3-4 kitchens in a foreign country in an 8 day period with only 1 or 2 mashgichim). I'm not at all looking to question any specific program, or these programs in general, just want to understand it better. If anyone has this experience or can put me in touch, it would be appreciated. I'm willing to pay the mashgiach for their time. Thanks.

שאילת חכם חצי תשובה

More likely to get an answer from those in the know on this forum.

[menotyou]

How does a chosem tell you that grease didn’t leak through the box?

I also think that ppl should think 2x before putting the containers on their countertop, or for those that like keeping pizza hot by putting the box on top of their toaster.. yes the hashgacha articles are right for letting the consumer know that there are real potential issues!

[aygart]

I also think that ppl should think 2x before putting the containers on their countertop, or for those that like keeping pizza hot by putting the box on top of their toaster.. yes the hashgacha articles are right for letting the consumer know that there are real potential issues!

Was this supposed to answer his question?

[ExGingi]

What are the standards of Kosher Arabia under OU served on Emirates? CY? PY? MT for fish?

[aygart]

What are the standards of Kosher Arabia under OU served on Emirates? CY? PY? MT for fish?

Did you try asking the OU?

[BESED]

Can never figure out why the articles I see from Kashrus organizations about food deliveries ignore the obvious reasons that he  points to to why it isn’t an issue.

A few points:

A) all these heterim are quite possibly בדיעבד there’s a disagreement among the poskim if נהנה בחליפין and מעבר לרבים are muttar לכתחילה or only בדיעבד and many point out that at least בעל נפש יחמיר (Rabbi Kallus clearly points out that he is talking as a בדיעבד not a לכתחילה setup).

B) There are several reasons why we can be חושש for נהנה בחליפין at least in certain situations 1. If the driver is travelling somewhere with no easy access to food he might eat it and replace it later 2. If the package gets totally ruined (and he feels that he’ll be held accountable for it) he might replace from a cheap non Jewish store .

C) מעבר לרבים might not always be applicable to these food delivery services drivers.

D)Most of the awareness by Kashrus agencies that I came across is concerning a totally different חשש that is that when someone is placing a order from a certain restaurant like McDonald’s or Bravo pizza for example that some specific locations are kosher there’s really no way to know if it’s really coming from that location without coming properly sealed and all of these reasonings don’t come into play in this situation.

E) The Kashrus agencies point out that in the event that it comes without or with a tampered seal you can send the mashgiach a picture and it could be muttar through טביעת עין.

[BESED]

In Israel none of the delivery services have any kind of Choisamos, everybody relies on אנן סהדי

[imayid2]

A few points:

A) all these heterim are quite possibly בדיעבד there’s a disagreement among the poskim if נהנה בחליפין and מעבר לרבים are muttar לכתחילה or only בדיעבד and many point out that at least בעל נפש יחמיר (Rabbi Kallus clearly points out that he is talking as a בדיעבד not a לכתחילה setup).

B) There are several reasons why we can be חושש for נהנה בחליפין at least in certain situations 1. If the driver is travelling somewhere with no easy access to food he might eat it and replace it later 2. If the package gets totally ruined (and he feels that he’ll be held accountable for it) he might replace from a cheap non Jewish store .

C) מעבר לרבים might not always be applicable to these food delivery services drivers.

D)Most of the awareness by Kashrus agencies that I came across is concerning a totally different חשש that is that when someone is placing a order from a certain restaurant like McDonald’s or Bravo pizza for example that some specific locations are kosher there’s really no way to know if it’s really coming from that location without coming properly sealed and all of these reasonings don’t come into play in this situation.

E) The Kashrus agencies point out that in the event that it comes without or with a tampered seal you can send the mashgiach a picture and it could be muttar through טביעת עין.

A. The articles I’ve seen ignored this point completely which is ridiculous, being as some say it is mutar lechatchila.
B. Doesn’t apply in a city where there is plenty of food around. And to be choshesh it got ruined and replaced sounds far fetched. Do achronim make this point? Why does it not apply to every אינו נהנה בחליפין?
D. Not the ones I’ve seen including the one you just posted which is counterproductive as it makes as if בשר שנתעלם is an issue which isn’t true.
Anyway, there is no Halacha that requires a chosem for such an instance. It’s a totally separate chshash which if legitimate may be an issue in very specific cases.
E. Which is unnecessary as it’s fine either way.

[PlatinumGuy]

that doesn't make it right.

כל הלכה שהיא רופפת בבית דין ואין את יודע מה טיבה צא וראה מה הציבור נוהג ונהוג

https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/ירושלמי_פאה_ז_ה

It takes astounding audacity to assume you know better than millions of religious people...

[moko]

כל הלכה שהיא רופפת בבית דין ואין את יודע מה טיבה צא וראה מה הציבור נוהג ונהוג

https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/ירושלמי_פאה_ז_ה

It takes astounding audacity to assume you know better than millions of religious people...

your response makes absolutely no sense. I'm clearly responding as to what the responsibility of the kashrus agency/ food provider is and your response is related to the end user/ consumer. Not related

[imayid2]

Rav Noach Isaac Olbaum:

[menotyou]

Rav Noach Isaac Olbaum:

I’m confused are you being matir everything that ppl mistakenly thought was kosher? How about allowing raspberries and blackberries and broccoli, everyone used to eat them?!
(Let them eat from butchers even after we know they are carrying non kosher meat as well)
If we know that there’s a problem, especially if it’s only a short time since it began, because of lack of understanding the metzios- of course you need to stop it.

[moko]

The other crucial point missing is how to determine נהנה בחילופו. Clearly בימי חזל they sometimes had a concept of נהנה  even with delivery people.

[imayid2]

I’m confused are you being matir everything that ppl mistakenly thought was kosher? How about allowing raspberries and blackberries and broccoli, everyone used to eat them?!
(Let them eat from butchers even after we know they are carrying non kosher meat as well)
If we know that there’s a problem, especially if it’s only a short time since it began, because of lack of understanding the metzios- of course you need to stop it.

I did not write this and would tend to agree with you regarding the application of that מאמר חז״ל (although what people used to eat without necessarily knowing the extent of what is inside is a poor analogy).

[Chuchum Ainer]

https://x.com/OUKosher/status/1892000780602810582

[MHP]

R' Kuber and R' Shraga Kallus
https://chat.whatsapp.com/ByY2lBgwd8C3wrwSryZwWr

[herb]

https://x.com/OUKosher/status/1892000780602810582

Anyone know a store that has the kosher stock yet?

[menotyou]

Re AirUp water bottles w flavor scents.
I’m trying to understand the metzios is anything getting mixed in? In there a chashash BB”Ch so assur to smell?

[BESED]

Re AirUp water bottles w flavor scents.
I’m trying to understand the metzios is anything getting mixed in?

The way it works is that similar to a cigtrus where you’re inhaling air that passes through a cotton soaked with oils and other ingredients the same here you’re forcing air to pass through the pod which also has a soaked cotton in it and then come up together with the water into your mouth.

From the article posted earlier from MK Kashrus it seems like the issue would be if it mixes into the water and therefore it would be considered eating/drinking it and that smelling it (ריחא)would not be an issue at all.

But from what I understand the position of the CRC is that the issue is smelling it (ריחא) not so much that it’s mixed into the water. This is based on the tosfos quoted by the shach that inhaling an issur is only permissible when the aroma is bad for the body which isn’t the case here.

In there a chashash BB”Ch so assur to smell?

And possibly סתם יינם.

[mevinyavin]

In Israel none of the delivery services have any kind of Choisamos, everybody relies on אנן סהדי

pizza stores and cafes have no choisem
even burger stores only have one which is not enough for issur doyraysa

that doesn't make it right. There's a world of difference between lechatchila and bidi'eved. Just because a consumer has a right to a bidi'eved doesn't mean a hashgacha has a right to ignore halacha

Continuing this discussion in the newly-formed chosamos master thread.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=139432.0