Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[12HRS]

Panera Bread company sliced bread under the KVH (good?) being sold in Aarons Kissena Farm under VHQ

[dealfinder85]

Panera Bread company sliced bread under the KVH (good?) being sold in Aarons Kissena Farm under VHQ

You trust anonymous users on ddf over the vhq?

[12HRS]

You trust anonymous users on ddf over the vhq?

Some people are not anonymous to me.

[jack12]

Panera Bread company sliced bread under the KVH (good?) being sold in Aarons Kissena Farm under VHQ

Call the VHQ and ask (718) 520-9060

[dealfinder85]

Some people are not anonymous to me.

Would you eat in any of their restaurants? I am confused why this item concerns you.  If it is bc of the hechsher, that hechsher is reliable for many products.  the problem is, its a product by product basis. I have asked the CRC about items under that hechsher in the past and it always depends on the item (friendlys item they said was fine). so if you rely on the VHQ, eat the bread. if you dont, dont eat at any of their establishments

[skyguy918]

There happens to be at least one thing sold in Queens establishments that if you ask, VHQ will tell you they don't hold of. But that's a major exception, and I don't think it warrants questioning every item you see.

[dealfinder85]

There happens to be at least one thing sold in Queens establishments that if you ask, VHQ will tell you they don't hold of. But that's a major exception, and I don't think it warrants questioning every item you see.

really? then why do they allow it?
pm me what the item is?

[skyguy918]

really? then why do they allow it?
pm me what the item is?

I don't really get it myself. They can't completely not hold of it, otherwise that'd be insane. I image it's at least partially politics - both the part that they don't really hold of it and the part that they allow it anyway. Either way, my Rov tells his kehillah not to eat it based on discussions with VHQ, so I don't. (PM sent).

[ExGingi]

Does anybody know if this is reliable?

I find the following items from this certificate very telling of the quality/reliablity of this "hashgacha":

"Is under the Hashgacha" - yet "NOT Supervised"
"כשר למהדרין" - as I've already pointed out, anyone making such a claim or statement is highly suspicious in my eyes.

[dealfinder85]

I find the following items from this certificate very telling of the quality/reliablity of this "hashgacha":

"Is under the Hashgacha" - yet "NOT Supervised"
"כשר למהדרין" - as I've already pointed out, anyone making such a claim or statement is highly suspicious in my eyes.

huh where does it say not supervised?
unless you are referring to the berries in which case you misunderstood

[ExGingi]

huh where does it say not supervised?
unless you are referring to the berries in which case you misunderstood

I see what you are saying.

I guess I might have misread this as it has 3 distinct lines, one saying Non Cholov Yisroel, the second saying Strawberries/Raspberries/Blackberries, and the third saying NOT under supervision.

In any event, even after being corrected on this, I find that such a certificate speaks volumes about the quality of the Hashgocho. Many certificates for establishments will have a disclaimer about pre-packaged goods sold (such as soda, snacks, etc.), but I find it quite unusual to say certain items SERVED are not supervised.

Also, the word מהדרין is a reason for concern. The best and most reputable hashgochos do not use it, here it is used, and I would ask - even if one thinks it has any validity - what in this case is the Hiddur Kashrus? The non-Cholov Yisroel? The Berries? The fact that the establishment is open for business on Shabbos?

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong and show me how adding the word "מהדרין" to a Hashgocho makes it more reliable or more of a Hiddur Kashrus?

[dealfinder85]

I see what you are saying.

I guess I might have misread this as it has 3 distinct lines, one saying Non Cholov Yisroel, the second saying Strawberries/Raspberries/Blackberries, and the third saying NOT under supervision.

In any event, even after being corrected on this, I find that such a certificate speaks volumes about the quality of the Hashgocho. Many certificates for establishments will have a disclaimer about pre-packaged goods sold (such as soda, snacks, etc.), but I find it quite unusual to say certain items SERVED are not supervised.

Also, the word מהדרין is a reason for concern. The best and most reputable hashgochos do not use it, here it is used, and I would ask - even if one thinks it has any validity - what in this case is the Hiddur Kashrus? The non-Cholov Yisroel? The Berries? The fact that the establishment is open for business on Shabbos?

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong and show me how adding the word "מהדרין" to a Hashgocho makes it more reliable or more of a Hiddur Kashrus?

I agree that mehadrin in America doesn't mean much, especially when the major hechsherim don't use it, and this hechsher has some re'usas against it. I personally wouldn't rely on this hashgacha, but I don't think the berries thing is so crazy

[ExGingi]

I agree that mehadrin in America doesn't mean much, especially when the major hechsherim don't use it, and this hechsher has some re'usas against it. I personally wouldn't rely on this hashgacha, but I don't think the berries thing is so crazy

Where does it mean anything?

[dealfinder85]

Where does it mean anything?

Israel? not that its the be all end all, but it does mean something

[ExGingi]

Israel? not that its the be all end all, but it does mean something

What makes you think adding the word מהדרין has any real significance (other than business/money)?

The most reputable Hashgochos in Eretz Yisroel - Rav Moshe Landa of Bnei Brak and Badatz Eida Chareidis (which serves many other purposes other than Kashrus, hence the word Badatz, as opposed to all the other "Badatz'n" that are purely a Kashrus business) do not have the word מהדרין in their hashgocho!

[henche]

Would you eat in any of their restaurants? I am confused why this item concerns you.  If it is bc of the hechsher, that hechsher is reliable for many products.  the problem is, its a product by product basis. I have asked the CRC about items under that hechsher in the past and it always depends on the item (friendlys item they said was fine). so if you rely on the VHQ, eat the bread. if you dont, dont eat at any of their establishments

CRC doesn't recommend the Vaad of Queens either. 

[elya]

CRC doesn't recommend the Vaad of Queens either.

Interesting. Seems like they don't recommend the Vaad of Flatbush, or Rabbi Gornish either.

[skyguy918]

CRC doesn't recommend the Vaad of Queens either.

This is apparently a recent thing - IE crc removed vhq from the list. What I don't get is if you're gonna take a hechsher off, it should come with some sort of explanation.

[aygart]

What I don't get is if you're gonna take a hechsher off, it should come with some sort of explanation.

Why?

[skyguy918]

Why?

Well, it's one thing if a hechsher was never on the list. But if it used to be on the list, that means that at some point, the CRC was vouching for it. So if they're no longer vouching for the hechsher, what happened to change that? I'm not saying they're absolutely responsible to provide an explanation, I'm just saying it's puzzling.