Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 940788 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #860 on: March 29, 2016, 07:59:07 PM »
Well, it's one thing if a hechsher was never on the list. But if it used to be on the list, that means that at some point, the CRC was vouching for it. So if they're no longer vouching for the hechsher, what happened to change that? I'm not saying they're absolutely responsible to provide an explanation, I'm just saying it's puzzling.
I think it would only cause confusion. All it takes is one item which they can't recommend.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #861 on: March 29, 2016, 08:08:08 PM »
I think it would only cause confusion. All it takes is one item which they can't recommend.
VHQ is a local hechsher that certifies restaurants and caterers. So I'm not sure how that applies.

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #862 on: March 29, 2016, 08:50:48 PM »
VHQ is a local hechsher that certifies restaurants and caterers. So I'm not sure how that applies.
So if they serve raspberries and CRC feels you would be unable to rely on that they would their be unable to recommend relying on them since you may buy raspberries.
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Offline incendia

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #863 on: March 29, 2016, 09:40:44 PM »
it begs the question of what the CRC list is/ does? is it a list of hechsharim that conform to the CRC's own halachik standards or is it a list of hecharim that oparate within the Orthodox framework of halacha. For example lets say the CRC only allows yoshon and it finds out that a hechsher is certifying food made with chodosh, so they remove the hechsher form its list. That doesnt mean that its a bad hechsher it just means it doesnt hold by the chmrua of yoshon.

Its also a possibility that a hechsher could have the highest halachik standards and still removed from the list because it has poor follow through with inspections.

If you go exclusively by the list then there are many eateries in Flatbush and Queens that are off limits to you.

Without knowing what goes into making the list its hard to tell how exhaustive the list is.

Until someone can give me a reason why a known hechsher like VHQ or Vaad of Flatbush I'll continue to trust them, [ and if you give me a reason it has to me more than innuendo]

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #864 on: March 29, 2016, 09:48:51 PM »
it begs the question of what the CRC list is/ does? is it a list of hechsharim that conform to the CRC's own halachik standards or is it a list of hecharim that oparate within the Orthodox framework of halacha. For example lets say the CRC only allows yoshon and it finds out that a hechsher is certifying food made with chodosh, so they remove the hechsher form its list. That doesnt mean that its a bad hechsher it just means it doesnt hold by the chmrua of yoshon.

Its also a possibility that a hechsher could have the highest halachik standards and still removed from the list because it has poor follow through with inspections.

If you go exclusively by the list then there are many eateries in Flatbush and Queens that are off limits to you.

Without knowing what goes into making the list its hard to tell how exhaustive the list is.

Until someone can give me a reason why a known hechsher like VHQ or Vaad of Flatbush I'll continue to trust them, [ and if you give me a reason it has to me more than innuendo]
There is a difference between their having a standard and their feeling that something is assur
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #865 on: March 29, 2016, 10:01:52 PM »
So if they serve raspberries and CRC feels you would be unable to rely on that they would their be unable to recommend relying on them since you may buy raspberries.
Right, but where does the confusion come in. Just state why you decided you can't trust them anymore.

Offline incendia

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #866 on: March 29, 2016, 10:20:09 PM »

There is a difference between their having a standard and their feeling that something is assur

yes and no there are somethings that some think are assur and  others think or ok,  chalav stam  for instance.

I get what you are saying but without knowing why the CRC includes or excludes and org from its list Im still going to eat by the VHQ.

its also important to understand that its a list of orgs that the CRC recommends, that doesnt meant that if its not on the list its isnt kosher. I dont recommend that people travel on Spirit Airlines  that doesnt mean Spirit wont get you from point A to Point B safe and sound.


PS the cynic in me finds it odd that the gold standard list is made by kashrus org. I doubt that the VHQ compete in anyway, but its hard to be an industry watchdog when you are part of the industry

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #867 on: March 29, 2016, 10:31:48 PM »
yes and no there are somethings that some think are assur and  others think or ok,  chalav stam  for instance.

I get what you are saying but without knowing why the CRC includes or excludes and org from its list Im still going to eat by the VHQ.

its also important to understand that its a list of orgs that the CRC recommends, that doesnt meant that if its not on the list its isnt kosher. I dont recommend that people travel on Spirit Airlines  that doesnt mean Spirit wont get you from point A to Point B safe and sound.


PS the cynic in me finds it odd that the gold standard list is made by kashrus org. I doubt that the VHQ compete in anyway, but its hard to be an industry watchdog when you are part of the industry
They are not saying that you shouldn't eat from them just because it is not on the list.They are not trying to be watchdogs either. They are doing a service that people who are not familiar can have a point of reference. As such there are those who need to be excluded due to something like raspberries.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #868 on: March 30, 2016, 12:18:41 AM »
They are not saying that you shouldn't eat from them just because it is not on the list.They are not trying to be watchdogs either. They are doing a service that people who are not familiar can have a point of reference. As such there are those who need to be excluded due to something like raspberries.
Are you repeating raspberries because you know or think that's what this exclusion was about?

Offline Emkay

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #869 on: March 30, 2016, 01:51:02 AM »
Israel? not that its the be all end all, but it does mean something
Nope. Means absolutely nothing there either.

Offline Drago

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #870 on: March 30, 2016, 02:40:30 AM »
Nope. Means absolutely nothing there either.
@emkay and I only trust hechsherim that are in Hebrew, lashon hakodesh

Offline Emkay

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #871 on: March 30, 2016, 02:42:28 AM »
@emkay and I only trust hechsherim that are in Hebrew, lashon hakodesh

Offline tzifanya54

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #872 on: March 30, 2016, 02:59:54 AM »
They are not saying that you shouldn't eat from them just because it is not on the list.They are not trying to be watchdogs either. They are doing a service that people who are not familiar can have a point of reference. As such there are those who need to be excluded due to something like raspberries.
+1
They actually clearly write:  The fact that a particular agency does not appear on this list does not imply that the cRc has determined it to be substandard.

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #873 on: March 30, 2016, 08:05:26 AM »
Are you repeating raspberries because you know or think that's what this exclusion was about?
No it is just hypothetical
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #874 on: March 30, 2016, 08:49:19 AM »
+1
They actually clearly write:  The fact that a particular agency does not appear on this list does not imply that the cRc has determined it to be substandard.
And that explanation would apply to a hechsher that had never appeared on their list. But we're talking about a hechsher that they only recently removed from their list.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #875 on: March 30, 2016, 10:15:25 AM »
Nope. Means absolutely nothing there either.

Mehadrin in Israel allows a rabbanut to circumvent a law requiring them to accept as kosher anything certified by any other rabbanut.  Hence, Rabbanut Yerushalaim, in a restaurant where they give non mehadrin hashgocha, must allow a product certified kosher by rabbanut ramalah.  If they provide mehadrin hashgacha they can chose not to allow a product certified my rabbanut ramalah.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #876 on: March 30, 2016, 03:01:25 PM »
Mehadrin in Israel allows a rabbanut to circumvent a law requiring them to accept as kosher anything certified by any other rabbanut.  Hence, Rabbanut Yerushalaim, in a restaurant where they give non mehadrin hashgocha, must allow a product certified kosher by rabbanut ramalah.  If they provide mehadrin hashgacha they can chose not to allow a product certified my rabbanut ramalah.
But still doesn't mean much about the specific "Mehadrin" hasgocho. It's just that they might be able to pick and choose.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Boruch999

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #877 on: March 30, 2016, 03:03:21 PM »
But still doesn't mean much about the specific "Mehadrin" hasgocho. It's just that they might be able to pick and choose.
Correct

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #878 on: March 30, 2016, 03:06:34 PM »
Correct
So I am yet to be proven wrong on this.

The challenge is still on for anyone to prove that the word "מהדרין" or בד״ץ actually means anything for the quality/reliability of a hasgocho. I still hold that in almost all cases these terms have nothing to do with Kashrus and everything to do with marketing.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #879 on: March 30, 2016, 04:54:58 PM »
But still doesn't mean much about the specific "Mehadrin" hasgocho. It's just that they might be able to pick and choose.
That is a very big difference.
Feelings don't care about your facts