Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 940904 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #880 on: March 30, 2016, 05:31:15 PM »
That is a very big difference.
There's a big difference between Chinese and Japanese, yet they are both meaningless to me.

By slapping on a "Mehadrin" label, a local rabbanut might be allowed to be more selective, but it is still usually all about marketing.

And while the argument has successfully been made that in Eretz Yisroel there is a meaning to the word "מהדרין" on Rabbanut Hashgochos, that doesn't automatically make any Hashgocho with the word "מהדרין" in it, even if it is from any given Rabbanut, any more trustworthy in my eyes. For all I know, they might be selective, and approve of things that I wouldn't dream of approving in my kitchen.

The two Hashgochos which are in a totally different league than all others in many aspects seem to be Badatz Eida Chareidis, and Rav Landa of Bnei Brak.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #881 on: March 30, 2016, 05:33:57 PM »
There's a big difference between Chinese and Japanese, yet they are both meaningless to me.

By slapping on a "Mehadrin" label, a local rabbanut might be allowed to be more selective, but it is still usually all about marketing.

And while the argument has successfully been made that in Eretz Yisroel there is a meaning to the word "מהדרין" on Rabbanut Hashgochos, that doesn't automatically make any Hashgocho with the word "מהדרין" in it, even if it is from any given Rabbanut, any more trustworthy in my eyes. For all I know, they might be selective, and approve of things that I wouldn't dream of approving in my kitchen.

The two Hashgochos which are in a totally different league than all others in many aspects seem to be Badatz Eida Chareidis, and Rav Landa of Bnei Brak.
That is certainly true. Never use anything in the name as a way of knowing about the hechsher.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #882 on: March 30, 2016, 05:43:41 PM »
That is certainly true. Never use anything in the name as a way of knowing about the hechsher.
So can we agree that "מהדרין" in a name of Hashgocho (הכשר means taking something that isn't kosher and making it kosher, I don't want to be that libelous) is a ריעותא if you know nothing else about the Hashgocho? Or in other words (excuse my language): מהדרין=BS

If it would be truly מהודר, it's reputation would stand for itself, no marketing word needed.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #883 on: March 30, 2016, 05:54:29 PM »
So can we agree that "מהדרין" in a name of Hashgocho (הכשר means taking something that isn't kosher and making it kosher, I don't want to be that libelous) is a ריעותא if you know nothing else about the Hashgocho? Or in other words (excuse my language): מהדרין=BS

If it would be truly מהודר, it's reputation would stand for itself, no marketing word needed.
No. There would be some rabanuts which may be good as mehadrin but not without it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #884 on: March 30, 2016, 07:03:08 PM »
No. There would be some rabanuts which may be good as mehadrin but not without it.
So it's about the reputation, not about the word מהדרין.

They might just as well write for example "תחת השגחת רבנות רחובות - בהגבלה" and people might know that it would be up to certain standards that they might publicize.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #885 on: March 30, 2016, 07:06:06 PM »
So it's about the reputation, not about the word מהדרין.

They might just as well write for example "תחת השגחת רבנות רחובות - בהגבלה" and people might know that it would be up to certain standards that they might publicize.
Sort of. It is the word mehadrin which allows it to be selective. They cannot say that a different rabbanut is not kosher. They can say it is not as mehadrin as ours. Look at it as if the OU had a separate label called OU mehadrin which was only cholov yisroel etc.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #886 on: March 30, 2016, 07:27:02 PM »
They can say it is not as mehadrin as ours.
That sounds like a holier than though slippery slope. I don't buy it.

Look at it as if the OU had a separate label called OU mehadrin which was only cholov yisroel etc.
Would be a ריעותא for the OU in my eyes.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #887 on: March 31, 2016, 01:18:12 PM »
Kirkland salmon is no longer OU

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #888 on: March 31, 2016, 01:43:55 PM »
Kirkland salmon is no longer OU
Never used Kirkland salmon as it is sold without סימנים and doesn't have a משגיח תמידי at packaging.

I don't think OK or Kof-K allow such things with fish.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #889 on: March 31, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
Kirkland salmon is no longer OU
Eta maybe it's just a packaging error

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #890 on: March 31, 2016, 03:24:41 PM »
Never used Kirkland salmon as it is sold without סימנים and doesn't have a משגיח תמידי at packaging.

I don't think OK or Kof-K allow such things with fish.
The CRC is ok with it
So between the CRC and OU being fine with it, not sure why you had to step in here
We get it, you are very frum

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #891 on: March 31, 2016, 03:46:48 PM »

Kirkland salmon is no longer OU

Still on their website as certified.


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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #892 on: March 31, 2016, 03:55:15 PM »
The CRC is ok with it
So between the CRC and OU being fine with it, not sure why you had to step in here
We get it, you are very frum

Not requiring a mashgiach temidi for fish nowadays is a famous kula which the OU has from Rav Soloveitchik. Rav Moshe disagreed and many hechsherim follow his psak. Rav Belsky also told people that he recommended being machmir.

That said, The OU has a position that orange fish is always kosher since there do not exist any non-kosher fish with orange or red flesh. Even though some say that color was added that can only be done by feeding the fish food high in beta carotene and will only enhance the color in fish with naturally colored flesh. Their position is that this will work like simanim. If so than R Moshe would not apply here.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #893 on: March 31, 2016, 04:11:38 PM »
That said, The OU has a position that orange fish is always kosher since there do not exist any non-kosher fish with orange or red flesh. Even though some say that color was added that can only be done by feeding the fish food high in beta carotene and will only enhance the color in fish with naturally colored flesh. Their position is that this will work like simanim. If so than R Moshe would not apply here.

I have heard that argument once, and brought it up with someone I really trust when it comes to Kashrus (full disclosure - he does work for OK, though I've found him to take personal positions that are not congruent with OK official positions) and he told me that he inquired into this with people in the fish industry, and was told that the orange color (which comes 100% from the feed) can show up either in Salmon or in Shark!

What more does one have to say, if Rav Belsky himself recommended to be machmir in this?

I am able to buy fresh salmon for great prices with skin on, so I have no reason to seek this kind of kula.

and as for
you are very frum

I take that as a personal insult (כידוע הר"ת פרו"ם, וד"ל).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #894 on: March 31, 2016, 04:13:32 PM »
I have heard that argument once, and brought it up with someone I really trust when it comes to Kashrus (full disclosure - he does work for OK, though I've found him to take personal positions that are not congruent with OK official positions) and he told me that he inquired into this with people in the fish industry, and was told that the orange color (which comes 100% from the feed) can show up either in Salmon or in Shark!

What more does one have to say, if Rav Belsky himself recommended to be machmir in this?

I am able to buy fresh salmon for great prices with skin on, so I have no reason to seek this kind of kula.

and as for
I take that as a personal insult (כידוע הר"ת פרו"ם, וד"ל).
Rav Belsky does not say to be machmir regarding the color.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #895 on: March 31, 2016, 04:16:01 PM »
Rav Belsky does not say to be machmir regarding the color.
I understood that. But for the color issue I brought up a different opinion from someone I trust (though everything is taken with a grain of salt).

If the OU is meikel with regards to Mashgiach Temidi with Fish, why at all would they care about the Orange color?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #897 on: March 31, 2016, 04:19:34 PM »
If the OU is meikel with regards to Mashgiach Temidi with Fish, why at all would they care about the Orange color?
That still would not mean that anything can be accepted with no verification method.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #898 on: March 31, 2016, 04:24:21 PM »
https://oukosher.org/blog/consumer-kosher/salmon-colored-with-astaxanthin/

Thank you very much for this. Very educating, I will bring this up with my source and see what he says. He specifically named Shark as the only other fish that would turn Orange/Pink with the food additive. I will try to research this further to see if there's any other תנא דמסייע that says that Shark might also change color based on this food additive.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Feelings don't care about your facts