Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[aygart]

Nothing incoherent here at all.
. I don't think I understand hashgacha. I just look at leadership. That's was my point all along.

I once was going to a bar mitzvah at a hall which had recently switched from an establishment hechsher to a private one b given by someone I know to be a talmid chochom and yirei shomayim. Informally he was also blissfully ignorant and told me about the place "what can be a problem". I spoke to someone from the original hechsher whom knew the situation and told me that there were constant issues at this place and they told them some improvements which would be needed to avoid them. The owner chose not to implement these and switched to this new hechsher. I only ate the challah.

[henche]

The funny thing is, that after all of these passionate comments, trying to "educate" me on how wonderful the OU is, I have learned absolutely nothing that I hadn't already heard for years.

To summarize, the OU is great but if you really care you should get to know individual products and mashgichim.. 
Thanks. This is exactly what EVERYONE always says about the OU. and it does nothing for me.

Shall we summarize what we learned from talking to you?

[churnbabychurn]

Shall we summarize what we learned from talking to you?

I'd be honored to know that you learned from me.

[Yehuda57]

I'll end my part of the discussion on the OU topic with this: ( otherwise עוד מעט וסקלוני)

This post proves *exactly* why the OU is *far* more reliable than mom and pop hechsherim.

They have more financial pressure and the means to get away with it.

Unless their motive is not money, but the desire to get chareidim to drink OU certified Kool Aid and before you know it, ring wearing men are shaking hands with women in pants suits while flying back from business meetings without wearing hats, hoping to make it in time for the mixed dancing at the wedding.

[churnbabychurn]

This post proves *exactly* why the OU is *far* more reliable than mom and pop hechsherim.

They have more financial pressure and the means to get away with it.

Unless their motive is not money, but the desire to get chareidim to drink OU certified Kool Aid and before you know it, ring wearing men are shaking hands with women in pants suits while flying back from business meetings without wearing hats, hoping to make it in time for the mixed dancing at the wedding.

Lol..



Yiras shomayim is the only solution though.

[churnbabychurn]

This post proves *exactly* why the OU is *far* more reliable than mom and pop hechsherim.

They have more financial pressure and the means to get away with it.

Unless their motive is not money, but the desire to get chareidim to drink OU certified Kool Aid and before you know it, ring wearing men are shaking hands with women in pants suits while flying back from business meetings without wearing hats, hoping to make it in time for the mixed dancing at the wedding -- officiated by a rabbi't certified by the OU.

FTFY

[jackofall]

Your fudemental mistake is to think that the “better” hechshairim are not motivated/driven by $.
Fair to say that all are in it for money.

[cholent]

Your fudemental mistake is to think that the “better” hechshairim are not motivated/driven by $.
Fair to say that all are in it for money.

Actually, as someone mentioned above, the "heimishe" hechsherim are usually far more motivated by money. They are far more affected by the loss of an account.

I remember hearing Rabbi Elefant tell a story about how the OU dropped a very large and lucrative account... They are all salaried. They are not personally affected by the loss of an account, no matter how big. Nobody is personally making or losing money on each account.

[aygart]

This post proves *exactly* why the OU is *far* more reliable than mom and pop hechsherim.

They have more financial pressure and the means to get away with it.

Unless their motive is not money, but the desire to get chareidim to drink OU certified Kool Aid and before you know it, ring wearing men are shaking hands with women in pants suits while flying back from business meetings without wearing hats, hoping to make it in time for the mixed dancing at the wedding.

Or the head of the division is hugging a female politician on camera.

[Shkop]

Nothing incoherent here at all.
. I don't think I understand hashgacha. I just look at leadership. That's was my point all along.

That’s a great point. You make blanket statements about kashrus organizations without understanding kashrus.

You look at leadership.

Can we get some feedback on how you assess leadership? Would be entertaining.

[aygart]

That’s a great point. You make blanket statements about kashrus organizations without understanding kashrus.

You look at leadership.

Can we get some feedback on how you assess leadership? Would be entertaining.

Maybe this

Or the head of the division is hugging a female politician on camera.

[shaulyaakov]

There is a well-known kosher restaurant in NYC under the OU and a Chassishe Hechsher (I don;t recall which one, but my understanding is they have it because it helps get the heymish crowd). A rep from the OU checks weekly, the Chassidish Hashgacha come 2 times a year to pick up their check.

[aygart]

There is a well-known kosher restaurant in NYC under the OU and a Chassishe Hechsher (I don;t recall which one, but my understanding is they have it because it helps get the heymish crowd). A rep from the OU checks weekly, the Chassidish Hashgacha come 2 times a year to pick up their check.

There is something wrong with this story. Is this first hand or just what you heard?

[moko]

The מעלה of private hashgachos is also the חסרון. The can be as machmir as they want because no one is looking over their shoulder, but NO ONE IS LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER...

[aygart]

The מעלה of private hashgachos is also the חסרון. The can be as machmir as they want because no one is looking over their shoulder, but NO ONE IS LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER...

Why can't they be machmir with someone looking over their shoulder?

[mordechain]

So at the end of what has become a popcorn thread I've learned something important.
No worries about frum craisins, they're together with the nuts!

[moko]

Why can't they be machmir with someone looking over their shoulder?

generally the smaller heiahe hechsherim are operated by a rav who operates without oversight.
Even in the case of Hisachdus Harabanim or Tartikov Baos Din they are essentially operated by 2 people.

[aygart]

generally the smaller heiahe hechsherim are operated by a rav who operates without oversight.
Even in the case of Hisachdus Harabanim or Tartikov Baos Din they are essentially operated by 2 people.

That is true, but why does their ability to be machmir depend on that?

[cholent]

Or the head of the division is hugging a female politician on camera.

Wow. Can't believe you would say that. Anyone who watched that video could see that she hugged him and he was absolutely dying of embarrassment.

[henche]

That is true, but why does their ability to be machmir depend on that?

It's statistics.  Imagine there's a 10 percent chance that any particular person will chap a certain mishegas.

But for two people to chap it,  that means the chance is 1 percent. And for three ppl, it's one in a thousand