Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[S209]

Not true of RMF. A possible misconstrued statement of RRF. Fear it would break is not a heter to not tovel unto itself, so it can't be used as a tziruf. Maybe it's a reason to be meikil in general.

Really? Very interesting. I've heard that numerous times as well. Going to look into it further. What misconstrued statement of RRF are you referring to?

[koplonko]

Either way, I've always heard that that Heter combined with giving it to a non-Jew is sufficient for something that plugs in, especially if there is concern that one can't tovel something properly due to fear that it would break.

if anything, that would be a reason to say that you cant be trusted to toivel it properly, similar to kashering items that could get ruined...

[thaber]

Really? Very interesting. I've heard that numerous times as well.

Teshuvos V’hanhugos 1:450, Bais Avi 1:114, Chelkes Yaakov Y.D. 41 is the correct source
see http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=917&st=&pgnum=96 where Rav Moshe has a different heter for electric keilim, never mentions any of the heteirim attributed. 

[henche]

https://oukosher.org/blog/kosher-professionals/lo-basi-ella-lorer-keurig-coffee-makers/

Do Keurig machines require tevilla?
Unlike most other hot water urns that can withstand being dunked in water, so long as they are properly dried, the Keurig machine has a digital component that will not survive getting wet. Additionally, even if one were to attempt to toivel a Keurig machine, the inner chamber will not fill with water. Water will only enter the inside chamber if it is pumped through. So tevila is not really an option.
Rav Belsky holds that we may view the Keurig machine as a plastic kli, which is exempt from tevilla. This is because the entire visible machine is indeed plastic. The metal receptacle and element which are in the recesses of the machine are not accessible. Although there are two pins that pierce and inject hot water into the K-cup, it is not clear that these pins require tevilla. It is possible that they are like a can opener. If one wishes to remove the pins and toivel them, with some cajoling they can be removed (at least in some models).
If one sells a portion of the Keurig machine to a non-Jew, this would alleviate any question of tevilla, because even a kli that is owned bi’shutfos (partnership) with a non-Jew is exempt from tevilla4. The proper way to accomplish such a sale, would be to accept some money as payment (kinyan kesef) and have the non-Jew pick up the Keurig to show that he is taking partial ownership (kinyan hagba’a). Likewise, if an office has a coffee service contract that supplies and owns the Keurig machine then there is no chiyuv tevilla, so long as the service company is at least partially owned by non-Jews.

[henche]

https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/1168/the-mitzvah-of-tevilas-keilim/

  A vessel which contains internal computerization that will be ruined through tevila, i.e. a Keurig machine, should not be toveled.

[thaber]

https://oukosher.org/blog/kosher-professionals/lo-basi-ella-lorer-keurig-coffee-makers/

good finds

[henche]

https://www.star-k.org/articles/kosher-lists/1170/tevilas-keilim-guidelines/

eurig machine   Does not require tevilah if it will break if toveled, otherwise requires tevilah with abrocha

[avromie7]

I was told b'sheim RDF that "selling" it to a guy doesn't work.

[thaber]

https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/1168/the-mitzvah-of-tevilas-keilim/

"should not be toveled". Also should not be used. his next sentence reads "Essentially, each specific question should be evaluated by a Rav so that an appropriate halachic ruling can be made." Giving to a non Jew is a better eitza, but he holds that ". Another suggestion would be to give the utensil in question to a non-Jew as an outright gift and borrow it back from the non-Jew. However, this procedure only helps for one day, such as for Shabbos."

[thaber]

I was told b'sheim RDF that "selling" it to a guy doesn't work.

See Rabbi Heineman above. RDF told me that there's a lot of other ways to make coffee.

[ExGingi]

"should not be toveled". Also should not be used. his next sentence reads "Essentially, each specific question should be evaluated by a Rav so that an appropriate halachic ruling can be made." Giving to a non Jew is a better eitza, but he holds that ". Another suggestion would be to give the utensil in question to a non-Jew as an outright gift and borrow it back from the non-Jew. However, this procedure only helps for one day, such as for Shabbos."

How about if rather than borrowing it from the non-Jew, one rents it from the non-Jew (for example for $1/yr - or any other acceptable term)?

[Alexsei]

I Had this convo with one of my LOR's me: I bought an expensive coffee machine that will possibly break by toiveling, can I just sell it to the janitor in the building for 5 bucks and he'll allow me to use it? LOR: Nah we don't do these tricks, where did you buy it? Me: Walmart LOR: In that case just toivel it try your luck if it breaks just return it.... That was the last sheila I asked him

[yelped]

I Had this convo with one of my LOR's me: I bought an expensive coffee machine that will possibly break by toiveling, can I just sell it to the janitor in the building for 5 bucks and he'll allow me to use it? LOR: Nah we don't do these tricks, where did you buy it? Me: Walmart LOR: In that case just toivel it try your luck if it breaks just return it.... That was the last sheila I asked him

Ouch, ouch, ouch. Did you answer him that we don't do those tricks?

[incendia]

I Had this convo with one of my LOR's me: I bought an expensive coffee machine that will possibly break by toiveling, can I just sell it to the janitor in the building for 5 bucks and he'll allow me to use it? LOR: Nah we don't do these tricks, where did you buy it? Me: Walmart LOR: In that case just toivel it try your luck if it breaks just return it.... That was the last sheila I asked him

What does he do with chometz?

[thaber]

What does he do with chometz?

good point, but chametz is the anomaly when it comes to this topic. Shabbos, keilim etc we're much more concerned about kenunia

[aygart]

What does he do with chometz?

Min hatorah b'bitul sagi

[shaulyaakov]

Min hatorah b'bitul sagi

Tevilas Kelim is a Deorisa?

[yitzgar]

Tevilas Kelim is a Deorisa?

For most metals

[koplonko]

Tevilas Kelim is a Deorisa?

For most metals

according to some opinions

[aygart]

Tevilas Kelim is a Deorisa?

The poskim treat it as such based on the

according to some many opinions

FTFY based on achronim calling it that.