Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 341749 times)

Offline plainbachur

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2175 on: May 09, 2019, 10:52:50 PM »
I'll eat OU on anything pareve, but when it comes to meat, my family doesn't eat meat that only has an OU on it.
so you do trust ou or you dont?

Offline knowitall

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2176 on: May 09, 2019, 10:53:56 PM »
so you do trust ou or you dont?
Like everything else in Judaism, it depends.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2177 on: May 09, 2019, 10:57:22 PM »
Most of the time the 2nd hechsher to the OU just sends someone twice a year to pickup the check.

Online ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2178 on: May 09, 2019, 11:15:52 PM »
Most of the time the 2nd hechsher to the OU just sends someone twice a year to pickup the check.
Is that true with meat? Or is the other way around, with the Chassidishe hechsher being the primary, and the OU mostly relying on it?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline plainbachur

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2179 on: May 09, 2019, 11:17:51 PM »
Is that true with meat? Or is the other way around, with the Chassidishe hechsher being the primary, and the OU mostly relying on it?
ou relays on no one they are a legit organization best running  kashrus agency in the usa maybe even the world 

Online ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2180 on: May 09, 2019, 11:19:50 PM »
ou relays on no one they are a legit organization best running  kashrus agency in the usa maybe even the world
There’s no such thing as not relying on anyone in today’s kashrus world. Relying doesn’t make someone not legit.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online yitzgar

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2181 on: May 09, 2019, 11:38:03 PM »


ou relays on no one they are a legit organization best running  kashrus agency in the usa maybe even the world

You have inside knowledge?

Offline thaber

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2182 on: May 09, 2019, 11:41:12 PM »
Does anyone know about Teva meat from costco? its under the OU and Reb Dovid Miller from monsey, but I can't seem to find out much about R' Dovid Miller, besides a ZMAN article, which I definitely don't consider reliable.
Anyway, to answer your question, teva is a LA based company, and I am pretty sure it was started by two chassidishe yungerleit. Rabbi Miller has a shul at 68 Carlton road in Monsey.
Interestingly, it seems to be owned by Golden west did group, which explains how they got into Costco and trader Joe's
http://eriklitmanovich.com

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2183 on: May 10, 2019, 07:09:01 AM »
Is that true with meat? Or is the other way around, with the Chassidishe hechsher being the primary, and the OU mostly relying on it?
+100
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2184 on: May 10, 2019, 07:10:43 AM »
Anyway, to answer your question, teva is a LA based company, and I am pretty sure it was started by two chassidishe yungerleit. Rabbi Miller has a shul at 68 Carlton road in Monsey.
Interestingly, it seems to be owned by Golden west did group, which explains how they got into Costco and trader Joe's
http://eriklitmanovich.com
Rabbi Miller was also an RC for the OU in charge of meat for many years.
http://www.gwfg.com/our-brands/
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2185 on: May 10, 2019, 07:16:21 AM »
Most of the time the 2nd hechsher to the OU just sends someone twice a year to pickup the check.
-1
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2186 on: May 10, 2019, 09:51:45 AM »
ou relays on no one they are a legit organization best running  kashrus agency in the usa maybe even the world

The OU definitely has some very good things about their standards, procedures, and transparency, but they are far from perfect.

I'm no expert in the world of Kashrus, but based on my understanding there are different areas, each requiring a somewhat different expertise and skill-set.

1. Food manufacturing plants. This is where the OU excel (and I believe the OK does very well too) with their extensive knowledge and capabilities in modern food technology manufacturing, wide reach and extensive database. And in these cases you are somewhat correct in that when there's an OU and another supervision, the other supervision relies heavily on the OU, sometimes they add certain extra stringencies (such as rejecting certain runs), but overall for the ingredients and maintaining overall kosher production, they rely on the OU.

2. Local food establishment supervision. This is a totally different story. The OU does have the standards and procedures, but in these cases it is much more dependent on the local Mashgiach and the owner of the establishment. I don't know what their standards and procedures are, but I'm sure they are quite transparent and can be asked. In this area they are not necessarily better or worse than others, they just have their standards. It's not common to have a dual supervision on a food establishment, but it's likely that in places where those exist, the OU might be relying on the other supervision for mashgiach hiring and oversight.

3. Shechita. This is a totally different ballgame. As hinted in another thread I started, shechita cannot objectively be deemed good or not good, it's highly subjective as it relies on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shochet (the bedika and kashering could definitely be deemed objective, but there's no-way one can call Shochet screening objective. Yes, there is an objective part to it in preparing the Shechita knife, but the actual מעשה השחיטה depends on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shoechet.) It would be an extremely long stretch to think that anyone that really cares about Glatt Kosher meat would rely on the OU for that, especially if talking about an operation that's not the size of Empire Chicken.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2187 on: May 10, 2019, 10:38:41 AM »
3. Shechita. This is a totally different ballgame. As hinted in another thread I started, shechita cannot objectively be deemed good or not good, it's highly subjective as it relies on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shochet (the bedika and kashering could definitely be deemed objective, but there's no-way one can call Shochet screening objective. Yes, there is an objective part to it in preparing the Shechita knife, but the actual מעשה השחיטה depends on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shoechet.) It would be an extremely long stretch to think that anyone that really cares about Glatt Kosher meat would rely on the OU for that, especially if talking about an operation that's not the size of Empire Chicken.
I beg to differ. Even when it comes to shechita you are relying on eid echad ne'eman b'issurin, that being said if the OU's (or any hechsher) standards are below what you want, then they are basically telling you that their meat doesn't meet your standards.

Can you explain what you are saying about Empire?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2188 on: May 10, 2019, 10:43:15 AM »
I think you meant, is the size of Empire..

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2189 on: May 10, 2019, 10:44:00 AM »
I beg to differ. Even when it comes to shechita you are relying on eid echad ne'eman b'issurin, that being said if the OU's (or any hechsher) standards are below what you want, then they are basically telling you that their meat doesn't meet your standards.

Can you explain what you are saying about Empire?
You need to understand that al pi chassidus there are aspects of the kavonos of the shochet etc which pass on into the meat. This is a big part of the various inyanei kedusha that chassidishe hechsherim are makpid on specifically for shochtim. I fully understand that you may not be noheig that way, but it is not without reason.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.