Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 940147 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2220 on: May 11, 2019, 11:18:32 PM »
The discussion has strayed away from the point I was trying to make, in response to someone singing the praises of the OU and claiming that the Heimishe Hechsherim just rubber stamp and collect the check.

I was making a distinction between different areas of Kashrus (without making any judgment call about the level of Hashgocho).

My point when I said that

It would be an extremely long stretch to think that anyone that really cares about Glatt Kosher meat would rely on the OU for that, especially if talking about an operation that's not the size of Empire Chicken.

was simply that Kashrus certification is a form of branding and marketing. As such, I find it a long stretch that someone that would market a shechita to "Charedi" communities, such as Lakewood, Boro Park, Crown Heights, Williamsburg, etc. would reach out to the OU as their primary Hechsher. If they would have an OU it would be in order to market elsewhere, and would have it on top of the primary Hechsher.

An operation such as Empire, which is large and markets all over, not necessarily to "Charedi" communities, might seek out the OU as their primary Hechsher.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2221 on: May 11, 2019, 11:22:06 PM »
The discussion has strayed away from the point I was trying to make, in response to someone singing the praises of the OU and claiming that the Heimishe Hechsherim just rubber stamp and collect the check.

I was making a distinction between different areas of Kashrus (without making any judgment call about the level of Hashgocho).

My point when I said that

was simply that Kashrus certification is a form of branding and marketing. As such, I find it a long stretch that someone that would market a shechita to "Charedi" communities, such as Lakewood, Boro Park, Crown Heights, Williamsburg, etc. would reach out to the OU as their primary Hechsher. If they would have an OU it would be in order to market elsewhere, and would have it on top of the primary Hechsher.

An operation such as Empire, which is large and markets all over, not necessarily to "Charedi" communities, might seek out the OU as their primary Hechsher.
It still factually incorrect to say that people who eat OU meat unquestionably "don't care about glatt kosher seriously".

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2222 on: May 12, 2019, 12:13:27 AM »
It still factually incorrect to say that people who eat OU meat unquestionably "don't care about glatt kosher seriously".

That isn't the only factually incorrect statement which I didn't make.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2223 on: May 12, 2019, 12:14:18 AM »
The discussion has strayed away from the point I was trying to make, in response to someone singing the praises of the OU and claiming that the Heimishe Hechsherim just rubber stamp and collect the check.

I was making a distinction between different areas of Kashrus (without making any judgment call about the level of Hashgocho).

My point when I said that

was simply that Kashrus certification is a form of branding and marketing. As such, I find it a long stretch that someone that would market a shechita to "Charedi" communities, such as Lakewood, Boro Park, Crown Heights, Williamsburg, etc. would reach out to the OU as their primary Hechsher. If they would have an OU it would be in order to market elsewhere, and would have it on top of the primary Hechsher.

An operation such as Empire, which is large and markets all over, not necessarily to "Charedi" communities, might seek out the OU as their primary Hechsher.
The ou will only accept meat under their supervision into any of their restaurants o or caterers. Therefore any shechita which wants to sell to them will need to have an ou
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2224 on: May 12, 2019, 12:15:34 AM »
The ou will only accept meat under their supervision into any of their restaurants o or caterers. Therefore any shechita which wants to sell to them will need to have an ou

Makes perfect sense.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2225 on: May 12, 2019, 12:25:22 AM »
You need to understand that al pi chassidus there are aspects of the kavonos of the shochet etc which pass on into the meat. This is a big part of the various inyanei kedusha that chassidishe hechsherim are makpid on specifically for shochtim. I fully understand that you may not be noheig that way, but it is not without reason.

Hearing it from some chassidishe talmidei chachomim

As much as I think about this, I think that those talmidei chachomim were either clueless (as I believe the vast majority of the oilom is), or were just pulling a cover over your eyes (which you took hook, bait and sinker) in order to obfuscate the truth.

I have asked a good friend and neighbor who is a shochet what "Chassidishe Shechita" means. He confirmed what I suspected, that all it means is that the shochet belongs to the same or similar community as the Rov certifying the shechita (and obviously acts as would be expected from a Yerei Shomayim in said community).

IMHO that could be either a form of chauvinism, or simply a practical way to subjectively assess Yiras Shomayim (to the "extent" a human being might be able to assess such), as it might look differently in different communities. For example: a Litvisher or a Yekke that trims his beard might be fully Yerei Shomayim, but someone who comes from a Lubavitch community and would trim his beard wouldn't pass basic screening. Or how about a shochet that would eat non-CY? Would the OU disqualify him from what they would certify as Glatt Kosher? I would find it hard to believe that a Chassidishe Hechsher would approve of such a shochet.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2226 on: May 12, 2019, 02:02:02 AM »
Ok let me clarify this OU-chassidish shchitah debate with some real info from a few people in kashrus.

OU- relies on different kulas for meat that many rabbonim do not agree with, as anyone who ever learnt halacha knows that every sugya has many opinions and it's not always clear how we paskan.
OU meat is definitely kosher, however it is on the lower end of American hashgachas In regards to meat. For example OU certifies American made foie gras and none of the other hechsherim will advise you that it is ok to eat.

Chassidish shchitah- there is NO standard on this whatsoever.
Chassidish vs OU means a higher standard
Chassidish vs a different hechsher has no defined chumras, to one Chassidish hechsher it could mean a chumra, to another how you look, and another if you have a beard or go to the mikvah.

Offline palm tights

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2227 on: May 12, 2019, 02:09:05 AM »
Ok let me clarify this OU-chassidish shchitah debate with some real info from a few people in kashrus.

OU- relies on different kulas for meat that many rabbonim do not agree with, as anyone who ever learnt halacha knows that every sugya has many opinions and it's not always clear how we paskan.
OU meat is definitely kosher, however it is on the lower end of American hashgachas In regards to meat. For example OU certifies American made foie gras and none of the other hechsherim will advise you that it is ok to eat.

Chassidish shchitah- there is NO standard on this whatsoever.
Chassidish vs OU means a higher standard
Chassidish vs a different hechsher has no defined chumras, to one Chassidish hechsher it could mean a chumra, to another how you look, and another if you have a beard or go to the mikvah.
Is there any ou shchita at all for meat?
Meal mart ,agri ,solomons ,birdsboro all have them have chasidish hashgochos,is there ou only shchita these days?

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2228 on: May 12, 2019, 02:10:19 AM »
Is there any ou shchita at all for meat?
Meal mart ,agri ,solomons ,birdsboro all have them have chasidish hashgochos,is there ou only shchita these days?

I believe there is but I don't have a specific brand in mind. I know shop rite often sells ou meat.

Offline palm tights

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2229 on: May 12, 2019, 02:13:25 AM »
I believe there is but I don't have a specific brand in mind. I know shop rite often sells ou meat.
I know for a fact that there isn't !

Shop rite usually sells meal mart

Offline moisheyb

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2230 on: May 12, 2019, 02:14:38 AM »
I know for a fact that there isn't !

Shop rite usually sells meal mart
If you say so...

Offline palm tights

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2231 on: May 12, 2019, 02:15:47 AM »
If you say so...
Lol

Unless you prove me wrong

Offline moisheyb

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2232 on: May 12, 2019, 02:19:47 AM »
Lol

Unless you prove me wrong
I've seen it myself if that counts.

Offline palm tights

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2233 on: May 12, 2019, 02:36:32 AM »
I've seen it myself if that counts.
Right

But you don't remember which brand it is

I know the industry and there is no ou only meat shchita as far i know

Offline moko

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2234 on: May 12, 2019, 03:07:54 AM »
Right

But you don't remember which brand it is

I know the industry and there is no ou only meat shchita as far i know
there was Real Kosher/ 999 but they ceased operations in 2015

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2235 on: May 12, 2019, 09:12:17 AM »
Gotta love that "glatt kosher" and "empire" being used together. Of course empire isn't glatt kosher, because no chicken is (or all kosher chicken is).
.

The term "Glatt" has been used to mean a higher standard of kashrus for as long as I've been alive. No-one who says Glatt kosher about chickens (or pizza) is referring to the lungs.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2236 on: May 12, 2019, 09:54:07 AM »
My $.02 on chassidishe (or more precisely Lubavitcher) shchita.

1- We believe that learning chassidus enhances ones Yiras shomayim. So if you have someone who has yiras shomayim and learns chassidus, they are preferable to someone who has yiras shomayim but does not learn chassidus. Obviously, if the person is lacking in yiras shomayim, the fact that he opens a Tanya for 5 minutes in the morning, does not qualify him to be a shochet.

2- Separately, when it comes to shchita, the halacha is that a person should prefer a situation where he knows and trusts the shochet, to a situation where he only knows and trusts the Rov. The closest most people can get to that standard today, when the shochet is not coming to your backyard to shecht, is to give preference to someone from thier own community.

3- Regarding beards, mikvah etc... For someone from a community where those things are considered a requirement, it shows a lack of yiras shomayim to be lax in those areas. So while a lack of a beard says (little to) nothing about the yiras shomayim of a litvishe shochet, it does disqualify a Lubavitcher shochet.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2237 on: May 12, 2019, 10:14:19 AM »
there was Real Kosher/ 999 but they ceased operations in 2015
Did they do their own shechita?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline thaber

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2238 on: May 12, 2019, 10:31:51 AM »
Based on your clarifications and comments further down the thread you have no basis to say that the OU shochtim are less yorei shomayim than anyone else, and as such you should retract this comment and ask them all mechila. You may have meant something different, but read what you wrote, it's fairly clear that that is what you are saying.



3. Shechita. This is a totally different ballgame. As hinted in another thread I started, shechita cannot objectively be deemed good or not good, it's highly subjective as it relies on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shochet (the bedika and kashering could definitely be deemed objective, but there's no-way one can call Shochet screening objective. Yes, there is an objective part to it in preparing the Shechita knife, but the actual מעשה השחיטה depends on the Yiras Shomaim of the Shoechet.) It would be an extremely long stretch to think that anyone that really cares about Glatt Kosher meat would rely on the OU for that, especially if talking about an operation that's not the size of Empire Chicken.


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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #2239 on: May 12, 2019, 10:36:26 AM »


Ok let me clarify this OU-chassidish shchitah debate with some real info from a few people in kashrus.

OU- relies on different kulas for meat that many rabbonim do not agree with, as anyone who ever learnt halacha knows that every sugya has many opinions and it's not always clear how we paskan.
OU meat is definitely kosher, however it is on the lower end of American hashgachas In regards to meat. For example OU certifies American made foie gras and none of the other hechsherim will advise you that it is ok to eat.
any other examples?

Chassidish shchitah- there is NO standard on this whatsoever.
Chassidish vs OU means a higher standard
Chassidish vs a different hechsher has no defined chumras, to one Chassidish hechsher it could mean a chumra, to another how you look, and another if you have a beard or go to the mikvah.
This is a very self contradicting paragraph. No standards but definitely better? How is that?