Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[thaber]

I think I did better than that here:

2 and 3 are glorified versions of he looks like me. 1 is condescending, and while no doubt learning chassidus enhances yiras shamayim, it is foolish to say that someone who doesn't learn chassidus can't be in the same level.

[ExGingi]

1- We believe that learning chassidus enhances ones Yiras shomayim. So if you have someone who has yiras shomayim and learns chassidus, they are preferable to someone who has yiras shomayim but does not learn chassidus. Obviously, if the person is lacking in yiras shomayim, the fact that he opens a Tanya for 5 minutes in the morning, does not qualify him to be a shochet.

AKA chauvinism.

[thaber]

some background on R' Dovid Miller.
His initial claim to fame is that he was an RC at the OU in the Meat Department for many years. He then left to found his own hashgacha. His next claim to fame was his hashgacha on the highly acclaimed Pelleh Poultry (which for some reason no is doubting) and then started giving hashgacha to Teva kosher foods which is a brand of Golden West Food Group. He is the primary hashgacha for both Pelleh and Teva. This is first hand information.

Thank you

[thaber]

Tell that to countless people and companies along history that might have had superior products and services but bad marketing.

What does this have to do with kosher?

[thaber]

Why do you keep on going back to the "better" argument, when I clearly stated and clarified that it's about the marketing, and about the facts of which is the primary Hechsher?

This conversation was about kashrus and yiras shamayim, not marketing. If it's about marketing then I'm out. I thought we're real people here

[thaber]

As an aside, anyone not familiar with Rav Moshe's teshuva on עד אחד נאמן באיסורים should be. Can find link later if requested

[moko]

This conversation was about kashrus and yiras shamayim, not marketing. If it's about marketing then I'm out. I thought we're real people here

kashrus agencies are about marketing nowadays. Every. Single. One.

[thaber]

kashrus agencies are about marketing nowadays. Every. Single. One.

Doesn't mean we have to be.

[ExGingi]

kashrus agencies are about marketing nowadays. Every. Single. One.

To quote my FIL: מ׳האט אויפגעהערט עסן כשר,און אנגעהויבן עסן הכשרים.

[moko]

To quote my FIL: מ׳האט אויפגעהערט עסן כשר,און אנגעהויבן עסן הכשרים.

+100

[Ekay]

I know for a fact that there isn't !

Shop rite usually sells meal mart

+1000 there is no meat that only has ou ( heard this first hand from one of the top rabbis in the ou which I forgot his name at the moment). All the known brands (meal mart, agri, empire.... )which have ou also have a different hechsher as well. He told me they use the same shochtem.

[ExGingi]

To quote my FIL: מ׳האט אויפגעהערט עסן כשר,און אנגעהויבן עסן הכשרים.

+100

I guess in a certain way, my FIL as a mashpia, is one of those

countless people and companies along history that might have had superior products and services but bad marketing.

[zh cohen]

AKA chauvinism.

Not sure how you are defining that word, but what I wrote is not "excessive or prejudiced"

chauˇvinˇism
excessive or prejudiced support for one's own cause, group, or sex.

[ExGingi]

but what I wrote is not "excessive or prejudiced"

👆🏼 chauvinism to the power of...?

[zh cohen]

while no doubt learning chassidus enhances yiras shamayim, it is foolish to say that someone who doesn't learn chassidus can't be in the same level.

So if that person you are referring to (who is on the same level) would learn chassidus, it would

enhances yiras shamayim,

[zh cohen]

👆🏼 chauvinism to the power of...?

You are going to have to explain how a statement about the benefits of chassidus, are "excessive or prejudiced"

[thaber]

So if that person you are referring to (who is on the same level) would learn chassidus, it would

Not what I was saying. הרבה דרכים למקום.

[thaber]

You are going to have to explain how a statement about the benefits of chassidus, are "excessive or prejudiced"

chauvinism to the power of...?

A prejudice for their own group is chauvinistic.

[ExGingi]

This conversation was about kashrus and yiras shamayim, not marketing. If it's about marketing then I'm out. I thought we're real people here

You must have gotten lost in the מהלך of the סוגיא, so let me give you the executive summary, filtering out most of the noise.

It started with someone who, in total contradiction to his DDF username, didn't know much about Teva meat and asked about the Hashgocho other than the OU on it.

When questioned as to what he found wrong with the OU, he responded that he trusts them only for pareve food items.

מתקיף לה @shaulyaakov with a blanket statement

Most of the time the 2nd hechsher to the OU just sends someone twice a year to pickup the check.

which I questioned as to whether it might have any veracity in the case of Shechita.

To that a plainbachur responded with another blanket statement, without any backup, claiming that the OU doesn't rely on others, and singing their praises.

I poured cold water on both @shaulyaakov and @plainbachur, making a distinction between three types of Kashrus supervision, and claiming that I find it highly doubtful that when it comes to Shechita, the OU is ever primary (with the possible exception of an operation as large as Empire, or one that targets a different kind of consumer).

From there a lot of irrelevant noise ensued, making various pilpulim and diyukim in what I wrote or meant, as well as straying off topic into the question of what Chassidishe shechita might mean. But after everything was said and done, no one credibly refuted my statement about the fact that when it comes to Shechita, the OU is almost never the primary Hashgocho. And the reason for that is a marketing reason - that the consumers that consider themselves more scrupulous, are more likely to seek hashgochos other than the OU for shechita.

And now let me ask you a direct question, to possibly prove my point. Let's create a hypothetical scenario, where there would be a group of people that would go to settle or live in the Falklands for a period of time. Everything as far as kosher food could be brought in from the outside, but Shechita would have to be done locally. Furthermore, there seem to be a high percentage of Glatt בהמות there, and the meat is of high quality, and can be exported to the US for the Lakewood, Boro-Park, Williamsburg, etc. markets, providing good financial support for the newly established "Charedi" settlement. And lets assume that this was in close proximity to, or even part of, the US, and you would be the one in charge of arranging the Glatt Kosher shechita there. Would you reach out to the OU to provide the Shochtim, and everything else required for that, or would you reach out elsewhere to arrange that?

And as far as this, please post the link.

[thaber]

You must have gotten lost in the מהלך of the סוגיא, so let me give you the executive summary, filtering out most of the noise.

It started with someone who, in total contradiction to his DDF username, didn't know much about Teva meat and asked about the Hashgocho other than the OU on it.

When questioned as to what he found wrong with the OU, he responded that he trusts them only for pareve food items.

מתקיף לה @shaulyaakov with a blanket statement
which I questioned as to whether it might have any veracity in the case of Shechita.

To that a plainbachur responded with another blanket statement, without any backup, claiming that the OU doesn't rely on others, and singing their praises.

I poured cold water on both @shaulyaakov and @plainbachur, making a distinction between three types of Kashrus supervision, and claiming that I find it highly doubtful that when it comes to Shechita, the OU is ever primary (with the possible exception of an operation as large as Empire, or one that targets a different kind of consumer).

From there a lot of irrelevant noise ensued, making various pilpulim and diyukim in what I wrote or meant, as well as straying off topic into the question of what Chassidishe shechita might mean. But after everything was said and done, no one credibly refuted my statement about the fact that when it comes to Shechita, the OU is almost never the primary Hashgocho. And the reason for that is a marketing reason - that the consumers that consider themselves more scrupulous, are more likely to seek hashgochos other than the OU for shechita.

And now let me ask you a direct question, to possibly prove my point. Let's create a hypothetical scenario, where there would be a group of people that would go to settle or live in the Falklands for a period of time. Everything as far as kosher food could be brought in from the outside, but Shechita would have to be done locally. Furthermore, there seem to be a high percentage of Glatt בהמות there, and the meat is of high quality, and can be exported to the US for the Lakewood, Boro-Park, Williamsburg, etc. markets, providing good financial support for the newly established "Charedi" settlement. And lets assume that this was in close proximity to, or even part of, the US, and you would be the one in charge of arranging the Glatt Kosher shechita there. Would you reach out to the OU to provide the Shochtim, and everything else required for that, or would you reach out elsewhere to arrange that?

And as far as this, please post the link.

Thank you for that.
As far as the Falklands, I would, as you expect, do whatever sells, which is the OU + something with hebrew letters. However if it was for my kehilla only I would be overjoyed with just the OU, unless I learn something new here today.
Will post the link when I get in front of a computer