Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

Yet he has no system in place to actually provide it.

How do you know? If he says “it’s kosher” shouldn’t you be able to assume he does?

[aygart]

Why would you need דרישה וחקירה? It’s talking about when they’re giving first hand uncomplicated information, I shechted this meat, I was menaker, etc.

That is NOT the same thing as saying “it’s kosher” which can mean blessed by a rabbi, or I shechted the cow, and anything in between.

They are believed even against chazaka and in complicated cases such as almanas isah. Where are you getting this limitation from? Is it your svara?

[imayid2]

They are believed even against chazaka and in complicated cases such as almanas isah. Where are you getting this limitation from? Is it your svara?

What does this have to do with somebody telling you an expression that obviously isn’t something he verified himself?

Where are you getting this extension from? Is it your own sevarah?

[JMHO]

How do you know? If he says “it’s kosher” shouldn’t you be able to assume he does?

No. It's a business and needs a system of checks and balances.

[imayid2]

No. It's a business and needs a system of checks and balances.

Well according to their understanding, we should assume he’s telling us there is a system of checks and balances.

[avromie7]

Yet he has no system in place to actually provide it.

That's his problem, and he'll go to hell for it.

[JMHO]

Well according to their understanding, we should assume he’s telling us there is a system of checks and balances.

You may assume. Someone who is concerned about their standards of Kashrus will find out more before deciding anything.

[avromie7]

You may assume. Someone who is concerned about their standards of Kashrus will find out more before deciding anything.

That's what halacha says. Anything more than that is at best unnecessary.

[imayid2]

That's what halacha says.

Where?

[aygart]

Well according to their understanding, we should assume he’s telling us there is a system of checks and balances.

Yes.

That's his problem, and he'll go to hell for it.

On the other hand, there is a good chance he does not realize how much such a system is needed. I was in a yeshiva where one day they served pizza from a sheet pan with hot dog marks on it. Once that happened the Rosh Yeshiva made sure the kitchen was kashered and set up a better system. Many people do not realize the importance of a proper system. Once the system is set up, let's say by AKO, then either way you would still be relying on eid echad.

[rbs-g1.5]

Actualy, once I entered the kitchen , and saw what was going on, I stopped eating anything cooked there. At least a portion of the head staff did the same. (AFAIK kashrus was a factor in some members of the staff leaving the camp)
BTW The kitchen in my yeshiva was supervised by the local vaad.

I understood what you wrote to mean that you acted as a "mashgiach ,meaning that they relied on you to make things a drop better and ate. Kol Hakovod that people atually stopped eating.

There are many many camps out there, a few people reporting what they've seen doesn't turn it into "rampant disregard for basic Kashrus precautions".

How many yeshivos/camps do you know that actually have a hechsher? Have you ever seen a camp list their hechsher on an advertisement? Do you know anyone who didn't go to a camp/yeshiva bec. of kashrus standards? Does anybody ask about these standards? Is it anyway possible that if the answers to the above are negative ,that in many places you will have  "rampant disregard for basic Kashrus precautions"
 The only universally true basic kashrus precaution I know of is customer demand . I think that unfortunately when it comes to Mosdos there is rampant disregard for this

[imayid2]

Yes.

Problem is that understanding is wrong

[imayid2]

On the other hand, there is a good chance he does not realize how much such a system is needed. I was in a yeshiva where one day they served pizza from a sheet pan with hot dog marks on it. Once that happened the Rosh Yeshiva made sure the kitchen was kashered and set up a better system. Many people do not realize the importance of a proper system. Once the system is set up, let's say by AKO, then either way you would still be relying on eid echad.

You mean when he says “it’s kosher” he may not mean what your understanding of kosher entails?

[avromie7]

Where?

Eid echad ne'eman b'issurin.

[imayid2]

Eid echad ne'eman b'issurin.

Where are you getting this extension from? Is it your own sevarah?

[aygart]

You mean when he says “it’s kosher” he may not mean what your understanding of kosher entails?

Correct and he does not have a chezkas kashrus about that. Not your limitation on eid echad neeman that you need to ask him how he knows. As far as I can tell that is made up.

[avromie7]

PM sent

[imayid2]

Correct and he does not have a chezkas kashrus about that. Not your limitation on eid echad neeman that you need to ask him how he knows. As far as I can tell that is made up.

You made up that he doesn’t

[imayid2]

PM sent

אם לדין יש עליו תשובה

[aygart]

You made up that he doesn’t

Okay so it is your svara that it is limited and you have no source for it?