Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[Alexsei]

does this include random ads in Mishpacha, Ami, Bina etc that say all ingredients Badatz ?

Ofc, if we don't know someone we can trust them with blind eyes, but our neighbors and friends we know their weaknesses...

[HudZ]

Ofc, if we don't know someone we can`t trust them with blind eyes, but our neighbors and friends we know their weaknesses...

[imayid2]

While we are very obviously no longer bound to the takana in the technical sense, it's important to take into consideration the context and underlying logic behind it which may very well apply equally to us and behoove us as communities to insist and encourage everyone to be certified. (This is why it's commonly quoted IME)

This is for the overall greater good, even if there are instances where one knows there is nothing to be concerned about. But that doesn't necessarily mean that someone "violated" Halacha/takana if he purchases something from someone he knows to be religious and honest. (Though there can be other reasons as discussed many times up thread).

When some focus too much on the technical violation of the takana and what *they* insisted on 400 years ago which probably won't solve our specific issues, it is unhelpful to the overall issue IMHO. It sets up the type of flawed criticism in the video I posted.
(Rabbi Reiss from Chicago put out an article about the general subject some time ago and this was my critique of it.)

I apologize in advance if anyone finds this offensive. There is always the ignore option if you get triggered.

[TheAsh]

What about packages that have a hechsher on them?

Is the hechsher on R Eudlitzs list?

[ushdadude]

If you would eat in someone's house can you buy from their private business?

[mevinyavin]

While we are very obviously I believe that we are no longer bound to the takana in the technical sense, it's important to take into consideration the context and underlying logic behind it which may very well apply equally to us and behoove us as communities to insist and encourage everyone to be certified. (This is why it's commonly quoted IME)

This is for the overall greater good, even if there are instances where one knows there is nothing to be concerned about. But that doesn't necessarily mean that someone "violated" Halacha/takana if he purchases something from someone he knows to be religious and honest (as opposed to someone who he doesn't know at all). (Though there can be other reasons as discussed many times up thread).

When some focus too much on the technical violation of the takana and what *they* insisted on 400 years ago which is irrelevant to probably won't solve our specific issues, it is unhelpful to the overall issue IMHO. It sets up the type of flawed criticism in the video I posted.
(Rabbi Reiss from Chicago put out an article about the general subject some time ago and this was my critique of it.)

I apologize in advance if anyone finds this offensive. There is always the ignore option if you get triggered.

Fixed this for myself.
As it stands above, I can live with it. I understand your perspective but there are many who apply this particular takana of the Vaad lemaaseh. Big people, and many of them, and one (not accusing you of this but others have said so) cannot dismiss them by saying 'negius.' You can bring proofs otherwise and you can follow your own Rav but don't say the people who say otherwise don't exist. I understand your problem with the sources Rabbi Bleier uses, though, but I never relied just on him and all of my Rebbeim say this way. 

Now for the fun part, if I understand you correctly: RYBs says we have purchase from someone we know personally as trustworthy. He says everyone else has to have a hechsher. He says a business can't sell to those who don't know them. You only have a problem with that last statement (lemaaseh, not re: the halachic discussion)? Or something more?

[mevinyavin]

If you would eat in someone's house can you buy from their private business?

RYBs says yes. He says the Vaad's takana only goes for someone you don't know to be trustworth (or don't know at all).

[imayid2]

He says the Vaad's takana only goes for someone you don't know to be trustworth (or don't know at all).

This is historically inaccurate. The בית הילל explicitly notes (and we have the nusach of the takana) that it applied even to those who were known to be מוחזק בכשרות, משום לא פלוג.

(Will get to your question above later)

[mevinyavin]

This is historically inaccurate. The בית הילל explicitly notes (and we have the nusach of the takana) that it applied even to those who were known to be מוחזק בכשרות, משום לא פלוג.

(Will get to your question above later)

I am aware of this discrepancy but still answered him as I know that the Rav said so. It could be the nafka mina is that RYBs holds that a business must have a hechsher, so we are talking about someone who doesn't have a business. Or, that he is aware that some disagree with him and that's okay for the buyer provided you know him, but really RYBs himself holds he should get a hechsher. EDIT: But he used the wording above IIRC.
I've been trying to bug him about various things that came up as a result of this discussion, but I haven't managed so far.

[yitzgar]

Is the hechsher on R Eudlitzs list?

Who's list?

[username]

^^^https://kosherquest.org/

[yitzgar]

^^^https://kosherquest.org/

Doesn't have any information about him. Is he well known?

[imayid2]

Now for the fun part, if I understand you correctly: RYBs says we have purchase from someone we know personally as trustworthy. He says everyone else has to have a hechsher. He says a business can't sell to those who don't know them. You only have a problem with that last statement (lemaaseh, not re: the halachic discussion)? Or something more?

That one needs to buy from someone מוחזק בכשרות is pretty clear lhalacha, not sure that anyone argues on that (though the exact definition is a bit unclear).

However if the grocery store has verified that he is indeed such, then I think it’s a chiddush to see it’s לפני עור because the consumers haven’t verified that themselves since כלפי שמיא גליא the producer is someone מוחזק בכשרות. I do see where he’s coming from though. Seems to me pretty easily rectifiable by the owner putting a little sign next to it saying he verified the guy is an upstanding religious Jew. (יש לעיין that לכאורה you’d need to know the owner a bit to know he’s a מוחזק בכשרות to be somech on his עדות that yenem is a מוחזק בכשרות…)

This being said I don’t think this is the metric one should be basing on. We know quite well that ascertaining someones religiosity says very little about his competence etc. So staying focused to try an check the dotted line of מוחזק בכשרות is sort of missing the forest for the trees. (Similar to what you quoted from RYB that halachikly your allowed to but it doesn’t really work. ולענ״ד לפעמים יש פקפוק גם מעיקר הדין וכמו שהארכנו כמה פעמים לעיל.)

[chessman1]

Doesn't have any information about him. Is he well known?

He's based in LA and has been involved in kashrus for decades. I don't live in LA and have known of him for a while, so I'd venture to say he's well known.

There's lots of information about him if you google. (According to a 1991 LA Times article, he had a computerized list of kosher food in the US in the 1980s).

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-03-28-we-1423-story.html

[yfr bachur]

This being said I don’t think this is the metric one should be basing on. We know quite well that ascertaining someones religiosity says very little about his competence etc. So staying focused to try an check the dotted line of מוחזק בכשרות is sort of missing the forest for the trees. (Similar to what you quoted from RYB that halachikly your allowed to but it doesn’t really work. ולענ״ד לפעמים יש פקפוק גם מעיקר הדין וכמו שהארכנו כמה פעמים לעיל.)

+1000
Eirlichkeit and frumkeit does not equal competence or knowledge.
I'm sure it's been posted here before, there was a fellow who sold cookies and cakes in the Mir. Everyonesome people knew who he was, and I presume many people who bought from relied on him specifically bec he was frum and a yorea shomayim.
After a number of YEARS, this yungerman discovered that halachos of challah. Specifically, the halachos of tziruf of multiple doughs and also that bliya racha can be chayav. Which he hadn't known. And therefore hadn't taken challah from any of his products. In EY.

On the other hand R' Dovid Moore's rebbitzen (one of the respected rabbanim in Brisk) wife sold bake goods for many years (she still might), and they were makpid to have a letter from a Rav attesting to their knowledge in the relevant halachos attached to every basket of baked good they sent out...

[chinagel]

+1000
Eirlichkeit and frumkeit does not equal competence or knowledge.
I'm sure it's been posted here before, there was a fellow who sold cookies and cakes in the Mir. Everyonesome people knew who he was, and I presume many people who bought from relied on him specifically bec he was frum and a yorea shomayim.
After a number of YEARS, this yungerman discovered that halachos of challah. Specifically, the halachos of tziruf of multiple doughs and also that bliya racha can be chayav. Which he hadn't known. And therefore hadn't taken challah from any of his products. In EY.

On the other hand R' Dovid Moore's rebbitzen (one of the respected rabbanim in Brisk) wife sold bake goods for many years (she still might), and they were makpid to have a letter from a Rav attesting to their knowledge in the relevant halachos attached to every basket of baked good they sent out...

When the Tchebiner Rav first came to Yerushalayim, he was surprised to see people smoking on Pesach, something which wasn't done in Galicia (due to the glue containing flour). He asked around and was told that they'd been makpid until recently, however, someone known to be ehrlich started selling kosher l'Pesach cigarettes. He refused to reveal how he made the glue but was known to be trustworthy.
The Tchebiner Rav called in the person and pressured him until he was willing to say how he'd made the glue. He said: 'To be honest, I don't know why noone thought of it until now, being that it's so obvious. I just use Shmura flour for the glue!

[mevinyavin]

That one needs to buy from someone מוחזק בכשרות is pretty clear lhalacha, not sure that anyone argues on that (though the exact definition is a bit unclear).

However if the grocery store has verified that he is indeed such, then I think it’s a chiddush to see it’s לפני עור because the consumers haven’t verified that themselves since כלפי שמיא גליא the producer is someone מוחזק בכשרות. I do see where he’s coming from though. Seems to me pretty easily rectifiable by the owner putting a little sign next to it saying he verified the guy is an upstanding religious Jew. (יש לעיין that לכאורה you’d need to know the owner a bit to know he’s a מוחזק בכשרות to be somech on his עדות that yenem is a מוחזק בכשרות…)

This being said I don’t think this is the metric one should be basing on. We know quite well that ascertaining someones religiosity says very little about his competence etc. So staying focused to try an check the dotted line of מוחזק בכשרות is sort of missing the forest for the trees. (Similar to what you quoted from RYB that halachikly your allowed to but it doesn’t really work. ולענ״ד לפעמים יש פקפוק גם מעיקר הדין וכמו שהארכנו כמה פעמים לעיל.)

Sounds like lemaaseh we are very close to (but not precisely on) the same page, then, even if how we got there seems to differ...

[Yehudaa]

What's the story with Air Up water bottles?

Not personally interested in the concept, but have been hearing people quote varying opinions on whether there's a kashrus issue or not.

[myi]

In regards to frozen fruit, standalone frozen fruit was OK to use in a smoothie. But this time around I ordered this mixed bag from Costco thinking it's just cut up fruit. But now after opening the bag and double checking the ingredients I see it has some chemicals and whatnot to keep the color intact. Is this a problem?

Here's the product I'm referring to.

[imayid2]

In regards to frozen fruit, standalone frozen fruit was OK to use in a smoothie.

Very questionable to use organic strawberries in a smoothie.

https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/9259/going-down-smooth-a-kosher-primer-to-halachic-blending/

If the items you are using are from Category #1 (rov/muchzuk, most of the time infested), it becomes difficult to justify making a smoothie from them. Items that fit this category would include raspberries, blackberries, curly kale[10] (both conventional and organic) and pretty much all organic infestation-prone[11] fruits or veggies.