Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

Iirc Rav Moshe says that even though the small farms are problematic since they end up at larger facilities the gzeira doesn’t apply.

[moko]

The amount of טריפות גמורות in every shlachthoiz

they don't shecht dairy coes

[moko]

What does DA stand for?

Displaced Abomasum. (Abomasum=קיבה).
More commonly, LDA, left displaced Abomasum.
The abomasum should be on the bottom of the abdomen, but can become filled with gas and rise to the top of the abdomen (the animals back), when it is said to be ‘displaced’. The abomasum is more likely to be displaced to the left (LDA) than the right (RDA).

[imayid2]

they don't shecht dairy coes

Doesn’t make a difference unless you are proposing they have a significantly lower rate of treifos, FWIU the opposite is true.

[aygart]

Doesn’t make a difference unless you are proposing they have a significantly lower rate of treifos, FWIU the opposite is true.

At any point in their life or at retirement?

[imayid2]

At any point in their life or at retirement?

Irrelevant. Certainly no basis to claim they are dramatically better than regular cows.

[aygart]

Irrelevant.

Why?

[imayid2]

Why?

Has no bearing on the bottom line problem which is it’s statistically impossible that your milk has less than 2% חלב טריפה

[aygart]

Has no bearing on the bottom line problem which is it’s statistically impossible that your milk has less than 2% חלב טריפה

You keep saying this, that, and the other thing have no bearing but haven't explained why you say so.

[imayid2]

You keep saying this, that, and the other thing have no bearing but haven't explained why you say so.

You keep saying that the higher prevalence of treifos in milk cows can be because they are older, but haven’t explained why this makes any difference to the conversation.

[aygart]

100% of people have a fatal condition or injury when they die. How many have one 2 years prior?

How do stats of cows under entirely different conditions and/or at different stages in their life tell you anything about dairy cows while they are producing?

[imayid2]

100% of people have a fatal condition or injury when they die. How many have one 2 years prior?

How do stats of cows under entirely different conditions and/or at different stages in their life tell you anything about dairy cows while they are producing?

You are denying reality. We know they are 80% or higher treifos when they are past prime. They is a ודאי more than 2% treifos before that. I don’t believe anyone disputes this.

[aygart]

You are denying reality. We know they are 80% or higher treifos when they are past prime. They is a ודאי more than 2% treifos before that. I don’t believe anyone disputes this.

We also know that it is close to zero when they are born, so at what point do these treifos appear?

[imayid2]

We also know that it is close to zero when they are born, so at what point do these treifos appear?

It is obviously caused by their conditions. Therefore to claim there are less than 2% of cows living in those conditions which are treif is an outstanding denial of reality.

[moko]

Has no bearing on the bottom line problem which is it’s statistically impossible that your milk has less than 2% חלב טריפה

so your proposing that all commercial milk is assur?
Statistics don't speak to circumstances on any given farm or region.
Do statistics have a din of a vadai taaroves and therefore require shishim mderabanan?

[imayid2]

so your proposing that all commercial milk is assur?

This is a fairly famous conundrum

Statistics don't speak to circumstances on any given farm or region.

They may fluctuate but in every farm and region we are aware of the treifos rate is well over 2%

Do statistics have a din of a vadai taaroves and therefore require shishim mderabanan?

This is the crux of the question and there seems to be some strong proofs that it does.

[moko]

This is a fairly famous conundrum

I'm only aware of one Rav who holds this way.
Keep in mind this would affect all dairy products. Not just CS like DA would.

This is the crux of the question and there seems to be some strong proofs that it does.

please share

[yelped]

This is a fairly famous conundrum
They may fluctuate but in every farm and region we are aware of the treifos rate is well over 2%This is the crux of the question and there seems to be some strong proofs that it does.

This reminds me of the famous joke about a Brisker who met the Rambam in Shamayim and argued with him over pshat in the Rambam, and said "Antchuldigs Reb Moshe, Ihr Farshteit Nischt Rightig Pshat in Di Rambam"!

[imayid2]

I'm only aware of one Rav who holds this way.
Keep in mind this would affect all dairy products. Not just CS like DA would.

There is a lot of literature struggling to understand why indeed it is permitted. I shared one possible solution earlier.

please share

The Mordechai in Chullin in discussing why wheat kernels in ant holes are assur (we are choshesh it’s Matnas aniyim) and we don’t say that Rov isn’t matnos aniyim:



The milk has the exact same problem. It’s impossible that there aren’t treifos in the herd.

[Definitions2]

This reminds me of the famous joke about a Brisker who met the Rambam in Shamayim and argued with him over pshat in the Rambam, and said "Antchuldigs Reb Moshe, Ihr Farshteit Nischt Rightig Pshat in Di Rambam"!

I heard a nastier version "vas ken a frank tzu lernen a rambam"