Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[jye]

If you sample check 600 servings from the vat and find 3 insects, the entire vat becomes assur? What about a tanker? What about an entire greenhouse?

Finding three doesn’t make a ודאי לפנינו so I have no problem. You are using statistics to שאפ a וודאי טריפה that is more than אחד בששים. By the same token you should use statistics to create a מציאות of a ודאי בריה in the giant vat (we know there certainly is one statistically speaking) and assur the entire taaruvos.

[imayid2]

By that reasoning almost every miut sheino matzui product will have a big problem. Take a vat of green beans that hypothetically have a תולעת in one out of every 200 serving sizes (picking a product and percent out of a hat). מיעוט שאינו מצוי כלל. Yet when the product is processed in a vat containing 5,000 servings it is a statistical וודאי that there is a בריה in the vat which is not בטל . Therefore everything should have to be discarded. I don’t know of any heter to take a pot that וודאי has a בריה mixed in and separate it into multiple portions to make each portion a safek and therefore kosher….

Rav Elyashiv says that if you cook a large amount of vegetables they’d have a din muchzak בתולעים even though you didn’t actually see anything.He suggests cooking smaller amounts.

[imayid2]

Finding three doesn’t make a ודאי לפנינו so I have no problem. You are using statistics to שאפ a וודאי טריפה that is more than אחד בששים. By the same token you should use statistics to create a מציאות of a ודאי בריה in the giant vat (we know there certainly is one statistically speaking) and assur the entire taaruvos.

Not sure what you mean. If you find 3 than it’s muchzak and has the same Halacha as vadai berya.

Let’s say you see a berya enter a leaf in a greenhouse, the whole greenhouse becomes assur?

[aygart]

Let’s say you see a berya enter a leaf in a greenhouse, the whole greenhouse becomes assur?

Only if it can't get out. Otherwise you can check.

[aygart]

Rav Elyashiv says that if you cook a large amount of vegetables they’d have a din muchzak בתולעים even though you didn’t actually see anything.He suggests cooking smaller amounts.

This would also be an issue with any milk from a group of cows since there are tariffs that are miut hamatzui.

This is the real question not assumptions. Yet....

[imayid2]

Only if it can't get out. Otherwise you can check.

So there would be a chiyuv bedika on everything coming out?

[imayid2]

This would also be an issue with any milk from a group of cows since there are tariffs that are miut hamatzui.

This is the real question not assumptions. Yet....

A distinction without a difference.

[aygart]

So there would be a chiyuv bedika on everything coming out?

Why would it be different than an insect that flew into a large pot?

[jye]

Rav Elyashiv says that if you cook a large amount of vegetables they’d have a din muchzak בתולעים even though you didn’t actually see anything.He suggests cooking smaller amounts.

You can pretty much walk down the aisles of any supermarket and start throwing away product left and  right. Same goes for many items in large yeshiva kitchens that are miut she’eino matzui klal. אם יבא אליהו … אין שומעים לו שכבר נהגו….

[imayid2]

Why would it be different than an insect that flew into a large pot?

Maybe it’s too removed from the final step and too broad. An insect into a field so now the entire field needs a bedika? IIRC Rav Belsky argues it doesn’t.

[Something Fishy]

I heard a nastier version "vas ken a frank tzu lernen a rambam"

🤣🤣🤣

Still better than the Brisker who poured the pot of cholent into the toilet bowl משום שעבודא דרבי נתן .

[imayid2]

Why would it be different than an insect that flew into a large pot?

If it’s the same, when they same check and find 3 insects why is it different than a pot in which 3 insects are found which we say is מוחזק בתולעים?

[imayid2]

You can pretty much walk down the aisles of any supermarket and start throwing away product left and  right. Same goes for many items in large yeshiva kitchens that are miut she’eino matzui klal. אם יבא אליהו … אין שומעים לו שכבר נהגו….

FWIU to be a problem it needs to be a statistical certainty that there are insects in there. Which items prepared in a yeshiva kitchen that are מיעוט שאינו מצוי that would certainly have insects when prepared in the kitchen? Also depends on how little אינו מצוי is.

[aygart]

Maybe it’s too removed from the final step and too broad. An insect into a field so now the entire field needs a bedika? IIRC Rav Belsky argues it doesn’t.

You didn't write an insect into the field you wrote into a leaf.

[imayid2]

You didn't write an insect into the field you wrote into a leaf.

A leaf in the field. You don’t know which leaf.

[aygart]

A distinction without a difference.

Other than it being known to have been the case forever

[imayid2]

Other than it being known to have been the case forever

But not clearly shown to be cases of statistical certainty

[imayid2]

Maybe it’s too removed from the final step and too broad. An insect into a field so now the entire field needs a bedika? IIRC Rav Belsky argues it doesn’t.

[Ver hut gazugt]

But not clearly shown to be cases of statistical certainty

do we make an assumption that the animal is trief if it looks healthy to us? can we see it is trief while it is alive?

[yelped]

I heard a nastier version "vas ken a frank tzu lernen a rambam"

Ouch.

First version is actually possible to happen.