Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 1186394 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6820 on: July 24, 2024, 03:46:59 PM »
The statistic that I believe R' Cohen quoted (which you noted in your prior post https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=16659.msg2844871#msg2844871) was that if 10% of cows are treifos, then the likelihood of finding 16 or fewer treifos in 1,000 cows is less than 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

But that probability is only true (I'm trusting his math on this) if you assume a population treifa level of 10%, that you're selecting cows at random from the whole population, and that there aren't any other factors impacting the likelihood of treifos in the cows you select. If the cows that you're milking have characteristics that make them much less likely to be treifa, you aren't guaranteed 17 or more treifos just because that's what you would find in a random sample of the whole population.
They don’t have factors that make them less likely, they have more as far as anyone knows.

Offline chessman1

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6821 on: July 24, 2024, 03:49:10 PM »
They don’t have factors that make them less likely, they have more as far as anyone knows.
Some group of cows has to have characteristics that make them less likely to be treifa than the median...

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6822 on: July 24, 2024, 04:21:50 PM »
@imayid2 you're drinking chalav treifa!!
(Now use your good skills to farentfer why you aren't :P )

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6823 on: July 24, 2024, 04:23:01 PM »
@imayid2 you're drinking chalav treifa!!
(Now use your good skills to farentfer why you aren't :P )
My Rav said it’s ok :)

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6824 on: July 24, 2024, 04:23:17 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6825 on: July 24, 2024, 04:23:40 PM »
My Rav said it’s ok :)

You do not appear to be that fanatic chosid

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6826 on: July 24, 2024, 04:24:56 PM »
@imayid2 you're drinking chalav treifa!!
(Now use your good skills to farentfer why you aren't :P )
I think an important factor to consider is that milk cows need to have babies, and if they have babies they aren’t treifos.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6827 on: July 24, 2024, 04:25:49 PM »
רוב
Is there such a thing as a statistical impossibility in Halacha?

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6828 on: July 24, 2024, 04:26:40 PM »
Is there such a thing as a statistical impossibility in Halacha?
I don't know of a source for it. Do you?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6829 on: July 24, 2024, 04:26:46 PM »
I think an important factor to consider is that milk cows need to have babies, and if they have babies they aren’t treifos.

If we shecht them now while still bearing offspring then the percentages of treifos are way less? Then you do agree with moko's argument.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6830 on: July 24, 2024, 04:28:14 PM »
You do not appear to be that fanatic chosid
A מורה הוראה for shailos beyond ones capabilities is not chassidish

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6831 on: July 24, 2024, 04:29:14 PM »
A מורה הוראה for shailos beyond ones capabilities is not chassidish

You obviously believe that psak is wrong and side with Rav Shechter on this question.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6832 on: July 24, 2024, 04:31:37 PM »
I don't know of a source for it. Do you?
Not in those exact words but for example the Mordechai I quoted says the same idea.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6833 on: July 24, 2024, 04:32:40 PM »
If we shecht them now while still bearing offspring then the percentages of treifos are way less? Then you do agree with moko's argument.
No I do not. It’s a separate argument in which although to us they appear treif there is an override since they gave birth.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6834 on: July 24, 2024, 04:34:39 PM »
No I do not. It’s a separate argument in which although to us they appear treif there is an override since they gave birth.

Obviously if the "metzius" is that a small percentage are vadai treif, then the metzius is also that not "all" of them will give birth. 

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6835 on: July 24, 2024, 04:35:34 PM »
You obviously believe that psak is wrong and side with Rav Shechter on this question.
Not really, while I don’t have a good understanding of the heiterim I recognize that these complex concepts of Halacha aren’t known sufficiently by myself to make a הכרעה against the rest of the world.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6836 on: July 24, 2024, 04:37:14 PM »
Obviously if the "metzius" is that a small percentage are vadai treif, then the metzius is also that not "all" of them will give birth.
Should drastically reduce the numbers though and make it impossibility to have a true knowledge of if there is a vadai problem so we’d revert back to rov.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6837 on: July 24, 2024, 04:43:26 PM »
Should drastically reduce the numbers though and make it impossibility to have a true knowledge of if there is a vadai problem so we’d revert back to rov.

So there is no metzius for younger cows to have 1.66%+ vadai treif in this herd. It's not that the fact that they are still giving birth proves us anything because according to your metzius we would easily establish that at least 2 percent indeed won't give birth, as that cannot go against the metzius. So basically you now agree that for younger cows your "metzius" is not that concrete.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6838 on: July 24, 2024, 04:50:32 PM »
Not in those exact words but for example the Mordechai I quoted says the same idea.
Remind me the maare makom
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #6839 on: July 24, 2024, 07:08:50 PM »
So there is no metzius for younger cows to have 1.66%+ vadai treif in this herd. It's not that the fact that they are still giving birth proves us anything because according to your metzius we would easily establish that at least 2 percent indeed won't give birth, as that cannot go against the metzius. So basically you now agree that for younger cows your "metzius" is not that concrete.
No.

Although there is vadai treifos at a high rate, that does not establish they won’t give birth. They give birth and thus receive a pass on their treifakeit.