Author Topic: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)  (Read 30622 times)

Offline moish

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from JKN
Summer Kashrus Travel Advisory for Jerusalem
3 Menachem Av 5772
July 22, 2012
 
I would like to begin this post with an apology for not publicizing my
message a number of months ago when I first felt compelled to do so. Since
that time, I have spoken with people, consulted, and pondered, and finally
reached the conclusion that no one is willing to speak so it’s time for JKN
to do so, as I have done in the past when the situation demanded. Since that
time, the situation has become significantly worse and realizing the result
will be unpleasant, it is time to say what has to be said for I can no
longer tolerate seeing religious people eating, many times being duped,
unaware they are relying on a kosher supervision that is no longer reliable.
 
Not seeing any way to compel a change I feel duty bound to warn those of you
who will listen, those who have come to trust my voice. For the others,
nothing lost and nothing gained perhaps. I do not know why Hashem put me in
this place, but I do not believe it is to remain silent.
 
As you know, I am not affiliated with any kashrus agency and do not make a
living from JKN. I have stopped shuk tours and lectures in schools and
elsewhere for reasons I do not care to share at present, and focus on
investigating and education. I feel that you have a right to know that the
kashrus situation in the holiest city in the world, Jerusalem, has reached
an all time low, at least since my aliyah over 30 years ago.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:
This kosher travel advisory applies to restaurants and eateries under the
supervision of the Jerusalem Rabbinate, both regular and mehadrin ONLY.
 
1. This DOES NOT refer to any other hechsherim,
2. Does not refer to the Rabbinate hashgacha in other cities,
3. Does not refer to factory products,
4. Does not refer to hotels or whatever else you can think of.
5. Does not refer to tithing in the shuk, only the restaurants and those
selling take home foods and ready to eat items in the shuk. NOT fruit and
vegetable vendors.
 
It is quite specific so read carefully and do not extrapolate and draw your
own conclusions.
 
From my hours and hours of visiting stores, monitoring stores, spying on
stores, stakeouts, picking through garbage, observing mashgichim, walking
the shuk and other areas in the center of Jerusalem and have reached the
conclusion that one seeking reliable kashrus may no longer rely on the
Jerusalem Rabbinate hashgacha in restaurants, regular and/or mehadrin unless
you are personally familiar with the goings on in the restaurant you wish to
visit.
 
That means in my opinion, if you lack firsthand knowledge attesting to the
reliability of a mashgiach and a particular eatery/restaurant, you should
not eat there. A rabbi in a suit or sporting whatever defines reliability to
you is insufficient.
 
For rabbonim in Israel and even more rabbis abroad recommending Jerusalem
Rabbinate regular or mehadrin without recent firsthand information, I urge
you to stop doing so until you have made numerous unannounced visits to
restaurants before you shoulder the responsibility for your congregants
neshamas.
 
I have seen many violations of basic Shulchan Aruch. I am not speaking about
chumos (stringencies) here but simple basic halacha, which includes but not
limited to:
1. Non Jews lighting the fire and mounting shwarma for cooking in a mehadrin
and non-mehadrin stores.
2. Non religious Jews pouring non-mevushal wine in a mehadrin and
non-mehadrin restaurants.
3. Using non hydroponically grown (gush katif) greens for cooking in
mehadrin and non mehadrin restaurants.
4. Using non mehadrin cheese in a mehadrin restaurant.
5. Non bishul yisrael for Sephardim in mehadrin restaurants in contradiction
to the regulations of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
6. Accepting hashgachot categorized as “unauthorized” by the Chief Rabbinate
of Israel.
7. Non-Jews holding keys and opening and closing the store without Jewish
supervision, a basic in kashrus.
8. Non-Jews with keys to freezers and meat refrigerators.
9. Violating Shulchan Aruch 118, ‘meat being out of sight’ without proper
kosher markings, two seals as law demands. Chotem B’soch Chotem.
10. Meat being delivered without proper markings/supervision.
11. Deliveries to stores hours before mashgichim arrive and improper
paperwork to legitimize those deliveries to a kosher inspector if and when
he arrives.
12. Unsupervised cooking in kitchens predominately staffed by non-Jews.
13. Breads being transported by non-Jews without any kosher supervision or
markings.
14. I could go on but if you do not get it by now, no need to continue
reading.
 
In short, the Jerusalem Rabbinate mashgichim are all too often “no shows” as
are the mifakachim (inspectors supervising mashgichim). Mashgichim in many
cases do not remain in stores the minimum required time daily as per the
Chief Rabbinate. Ditto in mehadrin stores. Ditto for showing up at all.
 
The Jerusalem Rabbinate has unilaterally decided to permit unauthorized
hashgachas to operate in the capital, once again, ignoring the Chief
Rabbinate. In short, the Jerusalem Rabbinate no longer adheres to the rules
and regulations of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel in many cases and it
thereby disqualifies itself by non-compliance.
 
How can this be you ask? I for one believe that after not having chief
rabbis in the city for over a decade has led to the total breakdown of
kashrus services in the city. In short, there is no one watching the store
and over the years, several changes in management, the organization has
become dysfunctional from a reliable kosher standpoint.
 
You may accept this or not. It is entirely your call but I have done my duty
by informing you. If you have followed JKN over the years you know I have no
agenda, no bias and it’s is never about dati leumi, chareidi, badatz or
anything else, just simple compliance to halacha.
 
To prevent the flood of loshon hora comments that this is bound to generate,
the article is closed to any and all comments. Emails asking me “Where can
we eat” will not receive a response. I do not have the hours and manpowerto
check restaurants with any level of competence since we are talking about
hundreds and hundreds that are certified in Jerusalem.
 
Once the certifying body is no longer reliable, it is time to realize,
painful and inconvenient as it may be, that you may have to find new places
to eat. As I said, it is entirely your call.
 
I apologize to the mashgichim and mifakachim out there doing your jobs, for
there are some reliable places that I have seen, but they seem to be the
exception, not the rule, hence the kashrus advisory. Some mashgichim call me
regularly; stop me on the street regularly, begging me to go public forthey
cannot tolerate the anarchy that exists today.
 
Believe me when I tell you that I am being polite and exercising much
restraint here.
 
As I have been explaining for years, it is time for you the kosher consumer
to get an education. Learn the minimum about a hashgacha you plan to rely
upon and not come to Israel and then call from a hotel room after you are
booked and ask if it is okay. An educated empowered consumer can actualize
change. Please, for all our sakes it is time to accept responsibility and
implementing change. Eating blindly because it is convenient and enjoyable
will guarantee this unacceptable situation perpetuates itself chas v’sholom.
 
Before leaving your home abandon the myth that the State of Israel is all
kosher and Jerusalem is glatt/mehadrin (use any word you like). This is not
so and as you seek an acceptable hashgacha elsewhere; you must do the same
here.
 
There is a growing number of stores in the middle of Jerusalem that do not
have any hashgacha, that open on shabbos, that serve treif, including
seafood and pork products. A mashgiach in a non-mehadrin restaurant is
expected to spend a number of hours in every store daily. Please, if a
mashgiach has 4,5,or 6 stores under his responsibility how does he manage
such a feat? You may be accustomed to the OU in America, or the Vaad
HaRabbonim of Queens perhaps. That means when you enter a meat restaurant
there is a mashgiach there to greet you and respond to your questions. There
is no such thing as a meat restaurant operating without a mashgiach present.
Please, think back and tell me the last time you saw a mashgiach in a meat
restaurant here? The kitchen staffs are frequently and perhaps even
primarily non-Jews and non-observant Jews.
 
Please, I urge you to wise up and understand that people here speak Hebrew
as it is the national language. Not everyone had a yeshiva education and
when it comes to kashrus, good intentions are insufficient.
 
There must be a legitimate competent hashgacha and today, the Jerusalem
Rabbinate is no longer doing its job as it should. It is my tefilla that the
many rabbonim ‘in the know’ will draw courage from this alert and come out
publically attesting to the accuracy of my words towards compelling change.
I have no doubt the mudslinging will follow because when you cannot argue
the facts, the next step is to discredit the messenger.
 
Wishing you all an absolutely outstanding visit to the Holy Land.
 
In closing, permit me to refer you to a Jerusalem Post article from
September 2011.
 
If the entire article is not visible, double click on it to view in another
window:
 

To read the entire article, please click on the following hyperlink
http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2012/07/summer-kashrus-travel-advisory-for-jerusalem/
 

Offline YudiG

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 04:20:52 AM »
tachlis, are we supposed to disregard Jerusalem Rabbinate 100% until each place we frequent is investigated by ourselves or someone we trust?

Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 08:17:39 AM »
@moish: I suppose those guys are reliable, as those are quit some statements...

Offline shmuelb

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 08:42:56 AM »
Ask your competent LOR. If there is a choleh or something, it is likely to be preferable to use Rabanut J-lem but if you are healthy and have access to responsibly certified Kosher food, seems clear, if you are makpid on Kosher. If you are not, see the ethics thread  :-\
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 09:10:47 AM »
but if you are healthy and have access to responsibly certified Kosher food, seems clear,
I have no idea whether these allegations are true and I would definitely investigate, but I don't know what seems clear. If this is someone you know and/or trust then sure. But otherwise this is the only thing that I think you said which was correct:
 
Quote

 Ask your competent LOR.
 
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline mechayamom

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 10:18:10 AM »
Is there a list of Badatz restaurants in Yerushalayim?  Maybe Eluna has that listed.

Is the O-U in Israel the same hashgocha as the O-U here..such as Papagaio?


Offline moish

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 11:25:21 AM »
@moish: I suppose those guys are reliable, as those are quit some statements...
he's extremely reliable. hes not chareidi, and has no agenda. all he cares about are the facts. he goes into a restaurant, looks in the kitchen, asks questions, and apparently now started dumpster diving

Offline YudiG

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 11:27:09 AM »
he's extremely reliable. hes not chareidi, and has no agenda. all he cares about are the facts. he goes into a restaurant, looks in the kitchen, asks questions, and apparently now started dumpster diving

why has he stopped shuk tours and presentations?

Offline JEWDA

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 11:31:54 AM »
I believe him 100%. A relative of mine once asked the rabanut mehadrin why they give a hechsher on a certain tea for pesach if there's chometz in it and they answered: We called the company and they told us the ingredients and based on that we give our hechsher.
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Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 01:22:09 PM »
thanks for the update.

all i can say is: wow (inverted)

Offline mechayamom

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 05:04:27 PM »
I know this guy personally.  He is as upstanding as they come.  Has no personal agenda.
The last time I went I pretty much ate in Rimon most of the time since it is Badatz.

Too bad..so many tempting options out there.

Offline Red

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 05:09:28 PM »
The last time I went I pretty much ate in Rimon most of the time since it is Badatz.

Umm....

Offline JEWDA

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 05:11:18 PM »
I know this guy personally.  He is as upstanding as they come.  Has no personal agenda.
The last time I went I pretty much ate in Rimon most of the time since it is Badatz.

Too bad..so many tempting options out there.
Which Badatz? There's like 200 of them.
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Offline mechayamom

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 09:00:57 AM »
Any of the Badatz that are listed on the JKN (Jerusalem Kosher News) little card that he gives out.
It is probably on the website also.

I dont know them by heart..have to carry the card with me. 

Offline aarony

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 09:18:20 AM »
where can we get that card?

Offline JEWDA

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 09:31:32 AM »
Any of the Badatz that are listed on the JKN (Jerusalem Kosher News) little card that he gives out.
It is probably on the website also.

I dont know them by heart..have to carry the card with me.
I was asking which Badatz is Rimon?
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Offline Red

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 10:06:51 AM »
I was asking which Badatz is Rimon?

CMIIW, But I'm pretty sure it's Rabbanut Mehadrin. The hashgacha under discussion here...

Offline mechayamom

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2012, 10:20:48 AM »
The guy who runs Jerusalem Kosher News used to give them out to all the seminaries and yeshivot.
My daughter carried it with her wherever she went and used it to check the Teudot in the stores.

Perhaps you can email him and ask where you can get a copy?
Or if it is on his website you can print a copy.

Offline mechayamom

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 10:23:29 AM »
Not sure what the current hashgocha for Rimon is..I thought dairy was under Badatz Chug Chatam Sofer Petach Tikvah and meat under O-U israel.  It was definitely more than Rabbanut Mehadrin.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The sorry state of the Jerusalem Rabbanut (including Mehadrin)
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 10:32:09 AM »
Just fyi not everbody agrees that OU is better than R Mehadrin, although I personally think it is & eat both.

Just a point to remember, a mashgiach doesn't decide what's kosher & what's not, a Rabbi does. Just like a Shochet isn't reliable for what has to be checked & what we can rely on Rov, Eid echad etc, only a Rabbi is the 'pro' in these kind of things.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים