Author Topic: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos  (Read 23762 times)

Offline precise

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2017, 12:18:28 AM »
 A close friend of mine is r"l slipping down very bad. Right now he is at the stage where r"l he doesn't believe in "Torah min hashamyim", "am hanivchar", etc. can anyone recommend any solid good books on these topics which I can send him to read?
Wasn't sure where to post this. Couldn't find anything on this topic. If there is a already a thread on this topic please direct me

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2017, 01:10:19 AM »
A close friend of mine is r"l slipping down very bad. Right now he is at the stage where r"l he doesn't believe in "Torah min hashamyim", "am hanivchar", etc. can anyone recommend any solid good books on these topics which I can send him to read?
Wasn't sure where to post this. Couldn't find anything on this topic. If there is a already a thread on this topic please direct me
I don't know that sending your friend "solid good books on these topics " will help him.

Your friend needs personal guidance and help. First and foremost he probably needs someone that will listen to him. One probably needs to get down to what has triggered this, before being able to help.

There are people out there who specialize in this. Knowing the age of your friend, some background, and what he does now, might help in pointing at at the right direction for help. Don't reveal any personal information publicly, but if you give general information, maybe you'll get some recommendations.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline sky121

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2017, 02:47:29 AM »
A close friend of mine is r"l slipping down very bad. Right now he is at the stage where r"l he doesn't believe in "Torah min hashamyim", "am hanivchar", etc. can anyone recommend any solid good books on these topics which I can send him to read?
Wasn't sure where to post this. Couldn't find anything on this topic. If there is a already a thread on this topic please direct me

How's he doing in other areas of his life?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline ben89

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #123 on: June 26, 2017, 07:36:59 AM »
I don't know that sending your friend "solid good books on these topics " will help him.
maybe some chasidus books will help?!? 😂

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2017, 08:02:15 AM »
maybe some chasidus books will help?!? 😂
very possibly.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2017, 08:10:20 AM »
I don't know that sending your friend "solid good books on these topics " will help him.

Your friend needs personal guidance and help. First and foremost he probably needs someone that will listen to him. One probably needs to get down to what has triggered this, before being able to help.

There are people out there who specialize in this. Knowing the age of your friend, some background, and what he does now, might help in pointing at at the right direction for help. Don't reveal any personal information publicly, but if you give general information, maybe you'll get some recommendations.
+1. are you talking about a teenager,  adult?  chassidic? yeshiva background?  MY etc....

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #126 on: June 26, 2017, 08:13:24 AM »
maybe some chasidus books will help?!? 😂
Wow. So wrong on so many levels.
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #127 on: June 26, 2017, 08:14:57 AM »
I don't know that sending your friend "solid good books on these topics " will help him.

Your friend needs personal guidance and help. First and foremost he probably needs someone that will listen to him. One probably needs to get down to what has triggered this, before being able to help.

There are people out there who specialize in this. Knowing the age of your friend, some background, and what he does now, might help in pointing at at the right direction for help. Don't reveal any personal information publicly, but if you give general information, maybe you'll get some recommendations.
+100000000
There are some great people who help those in these situations and do a great job of it. It is rarely the intellectual questions that are the root cause.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline David Smith

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #128 on: June 26, 2017, 08:15:43 AM »
Almost nobody goes off the derech because of their philosophical belief in G-d or lack thereof.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline mendy from lakewood

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #129 on: June 26, 2017, 09:08:28 AM »
Almost nobody goes off the derech because of their philosophical belief in G-d or lack thereof.
could not have said it any better
"Respect is earned, Honesty is appreciated, Trust is gained, Loyalty is returned"

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #130 on: June 26, 2017, 09:36:02 AM »
Almost nobody goes off the derech because of their philosophical belief in G-d or lack thereof.

Someone once told me or I heard in a speech or something of the sort that when someone starts blaming their going OTD on philosophical questions he starts discussing things like the Kuzari, Moreh Nevuchim, Aristotle, and other major philsophical works of Jewish and non-Jewish origins until the person is forced to agree that he did not really think through the philosophical  questions well. "You mean you are changing your lifestyle based on philosophical questions without having read these basic philosophical works?"
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #131 on: June 26, 2017, 09:39:36 AM »
Someone once told me or I heard in a speech or something of the sort that when someone starts blaming their going OTD on philosophical questions he starts discussing things like the Kuzari, Moreh Nevuchim, Aristotle, and other major philsophical works of Jewish and non-Jewish origins until the person is forced to agree that he did not really think through the philosophical  questions well. "You mean you are changing your lifestyle based on philosophical questions without having read these basic philosophical works?"
that's rabbi mechanics classic line

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #132 on: June 26, 2017, 09:41:26 AM »
maybe some chasidus books will help?!? 😂
Unfortunately this is no laughing matter.

Learning Chassidus could definitely help, but it can't just be the book. I am positive that if the person in question would see that @ben89 (or for that matter any other Yid that doesn't even know him) is willing to have some מסירות נפש just for him, and yes, maybe even learn some Chassidus with him (like for example one of @Dan's favorite maamorim - which might give a totally different paradigm about עם הנבחר - to use the terminology that was used at the onset of the current discussion), seeing that caring and expression of אהבת ישראל might go a lot further than you could imagine.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 09:45:10 AM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #133 on: June 26, 2017, 09:44:26 AM »
Someone once told me or I heard in a speech or something of the sort that when someone starts blaming their going OTD on philosophical questions he starts discussing things like the Kuzari, Moreh Nevuchim, Aristotle, and other major philsophical works of Jewish and non-Jewish origins until the person is forced to agree that he did not really think through the philosophical  questions well. "You mean you are changing your lifestyle based on philosophical questions without having read these basic philosophical works?"
Though I don't know how effective that approach is, as it challenges and belittles the person, which could create a barrier, rather than acknowledging and validating the person, which might make him a מקבל.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #134 on: June 26, 2017, 09:50:54 AM »
Though I don't know how effective that approach is, as it challenges and belittles the person, which could create a barrier, rather than acknowledging and validating the person, which might make him a מקבל.
I do remember that it was from someone very successful with these people. He uses that to change the direction of the conversation to what matters. If you are going to be busy with his philosophical "questions" when they are really not questions but answers then it is a waste.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline theduke

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #135 on: June 26, 2017, 02:41:31 PM »
Personally, most people I have seen that have gone OTD (barring situations of abuse or the like) are due to taiva. They may say that they have questions but in reality, it is just an excuse, rarely do they try to find answers.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #136 on: June 26, 2017, 02:46:30 PM »
Personally, most people I have seen that have gone OTD (barring situations of abuse or the like) are due to taiva. They may say that they have questions but in reality, it is just an excuse, rarely do they try to find answers.

How do you know whether they tried to find the answers?

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #137 on: June 26, 2017, 03:06:53 PM »
How do you know whether they tried to find the answers?
ask them
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #138 on: June 26, 2017, 03:22:38 PM »
ask them

Which kid is going to say that he/she didn't even bother asking?

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #139 on: June 26, 2017, 03:24:11 PM »
Which kid is going to say that he/she didn't even bother asking?
It is not so hard to get out of them what they did to find out. Don't ask "did you ask anyone" but "Who did you discuaa this with?"
Feelings don't care about your facts