Author Topic: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast  (Read 6205 times)

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 06:05:32 AM »
Why do you some Jewda is Chabad? As for the story what explanation is needed?

I didn't mean Jewda specifically. I wanted to know if anyone has heard of this story... I thought it was in interesting story.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Q274

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 06:46:07 AM »
Challah, fish, cappaleni salad, fruits, water.

Offline moish

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 09:15:42 AM »
Either way we can wash and eat it's just preferable to spend the time learning or singing nigunim during the holiest time of the week insteadof eating...
thats not what i heard

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 10:44:21 AM »
If someone usually takes the time release tylenol b4 the fast, would he be allowed to take It by shalosh seudos??
I would say not- even if its not refua (time release) its probably hachana
Rabbi Felder, 1 of the big poskim in Lakewood put out a kunteres yesterday, he holds it's not hachana, and not a prob of medicine on shabbos. No need to mix it with anything according to him, take it (and Tzom Kal, he says) like b4 any taanis. BTW, even if your machmir not to take it on shabbos, speak to LOR about taking it on Tisha B'Av.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:48:55 AM by Lamdan »
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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 11:05:08 AM »
Rav Nissan Kaplan on Hilchos Tisha Bav that falls out on Shabbos.
Erev Shabbos
The Rema paskins that it is assur to wash ones entire body even in cold water. However one may wash ones feet, face and hand in warm water if one is accustomed to doing so. Soap may not be used. Today many people are lenient and wash even with soap. In addition there are those who are נוהג to wash ones entire body with warm water and soap. These people have who to rely on to do this. Particularly sensitive people that have a hard time not bathing over the nine days, even though it is unclear if it is permissible to shower then, however on erev Shabbos in honor of Shabbos it is permissible, as this is a bathing for a mitzvah and not for personal pleasure. It is preferable to shower before chatzos this year, particularly if one is relying on those who allow a shower of the whole body. ((ביאור הלכה however בדיעבד he may also shower after chatzos. פרי מגדים)) One who goes to the Mikva every erev Shabbos may also go this erev Shabbos. However he should not use the hot mikva but a cooler one. If someone does not go to the mikva every week and occasionally misses, he may not use the mikva this week. Even though Sefaradim don’t have the minhag not to bath erev Shabbos during the 9 days because they hold the issur is only from shevua shchal bo. There are those who hold like the בן איש חי who is machmir from Rosh Chodesh.
Cutting nails
It is permissible to cut ones nails this week even after chatzos
Preparing for Tisha Ba'av
It is recommended to prepare anything necessary for Motzai Shabbos before Shabbos, such as a Kinos, Eicha, pillows, or stools beacuase on Shabbos one may not prepare these things and on Motzai Shabbos one will rush to shul. Preparing these items is forbidden as it involves making preparations on Shabbos for a weekday. In addition the sefer נטעי גבריאל brings down that any form of involvement in mourning is assur on Shabbos.
Learning on Friday
It is permissible to learn anything all erev Shabbos.
Shabbos Clothing
There are different minhagim regarding wearing Shabbos clothes on Shabbos Chazon , however most communities today are נוהג to wear Shabbos clothing.
Those who are נוהג to wear Shabbos clothes on Shabbos Chazon may do so this year even though it in essence is Tisha Ba'av.
Shabbos
The Seuda
One may eat meat, drink wine and sing zemiros like he would any other Shabbos. (for seuda shlishi see later on)
Laws of mourning that one must observe
The Shulchan Aruch and the Vilna Goan paskan that there is no issur of תשמיש המיטה this Shabbos. However the Rema paskans that it is assur unless it is a ליל טבילה or another unique circumstance to permit it. The Shmiras Shabbos and נטעי גבריאל paskens that even according to the Rema that one must observe all private forms of mourning, this only refers toתשמיש itself and there is no issur regarding the other הרחקות. However there are those ((תשעה באב שחל בשבת להרב כהן who learn that the Rema also forbids all forms of הרחקות.
Washing with warm water
The Mishna Berura brings down the Taz that one should be מחמר not to wash with hot water as it falls under the category of אבילות שבצינעא. Even if one is only washing his hands, feet or face. However there are those are lenient and say that the Mishna Berura never meant to assur. Ideally one should be machmir in this.
Learning Torah on Shabbos
Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurobach writes that on Tisha Ba'av which falls out on Shabbos one may be lenient and learn normally the whole day. However one should note that there are three shitos in regards to learning on this Shabbos. There are those who forbid regular learning and only allow the sad topics that one would normally learn on Tisha Ba'av. There are those who allow regular learning until chatzos and then only the sad topics as it is also erev Tisha Ba'av. And there are those who allow all learning throughout the day.
Many are machmir and stop learning at chatzos but one who wishes to be lenient and learn throughout the day has whom to rely on.
The reason for the shitta that holds that one may learn until chatzos and from then may only learn topics appropriate for Tisha Ba'av, even though we generally do not show signs of mourning on Shabbos, is that the reason why one must stop learning on erev Tisha Ba'av at chatzos is not because we consider it as if the time for mourning has in part begun. Rather the reason is we are concerned that he may continue to think in learning later that night when it is forbidden. As Chazal say פקודי ה' ישרים משמחי לב learning Torah gladdens the heart which is assur on Tisha Ba'av. Therefore even though on Shabbos we don’t show signs of mourning still one should stop learning at chatzos to prevent one from thinking in learning on Tisha Ba'av (Chassam Sofer).
Seuda Shlishis
One may eat meat, drink wine and serve all types of delicacies, even if one would not do this on a regular Shabbos.
However the Mishna Berura says that even though one may serve a feast as was common in the Palace of King Shlomo, yet one should sit with seriousness and not act in a cheerful manner. Therefore one should not join with his friends for the Seudah Shlishis. However the בכור שור paskans that if one normally eats together with his friends, and by not doing so this week he would be showing signs of mourning which is assur on Shabbos, then he is allowed to eat with them. Everyone agrees that one may sit together with his family and be able to bench together with a zimun. One may sing shabbas zemiros by the seudah shlishis (Igros Moshe) even if he does not normally do so. (ויל"ע how this fits with the Mishna beruruahs psak that one must sit with a seriousness and not to act in a cheerful manner.) One may not eat or drink anything from shkia and on, therefore one must make sure to end the seudah before shkia.
If one benched but the sun did not yet set he may still eat and drink even if he did not make a condition when he benched to do so.
One should not say that he is eating to have strength for the fast as this would be preparing on Shabbos for the weekday. (Sefer Chassidim – in regards to sleeping on Shabbos to be awake motzai Shabbos. However it's possible that that is a different case and is not comparable to fasting.
After שקיעה before צאת הכוכבים
It is assur to eat or drink, One may not wash his hands, if one uses the bathroom he may wash up to his knuckles as on Tisha Ba'av
One may sit on a regular chair, One may still wear leather shoes until צאת הכוכבים
מוצאי שבת
The Rema brings down that the minhag is to take off the leather shoes after ברכו however he does not mention taking off your Shabbos clothes. Many poskim say that the Rema refers to a place where they started Ma'ariv before צאת הכוכבים or that he was referring to a place that did not wear Shabbos clothes on Shabbos chazon. Today that we wear Shabbos clothes on Shabbos chazon , we say ברוך המבדיל at home, and then take off our leather shoes and change into weekday clothes and go to shul. One who holds Rabainu Tam should at least make sure that there is no muktza in his pockets of the weekday clothes. One who eats seuda shlishis in shul may remove his shoes after ברכו , or before ברכו if it is already צאת הכוכבים. However he may leave his Shabbos clothes on until after Kinos. However there are those who learn the Rema that one could remain in Shabbos clothes until after Eicha and Kinos, but the shoes must be removed after ברכו, because this is the way Chazal were מתקן the availos and therefore there is no Halachic problem with wearing Shabbos clothes on Tisha Ba'av as the issur is to begin wearing Shabbos clothes on Tisha Ba'av but not to leave them on if he was already wearing them. Everyone should do as is their minhag, if one does not know his minhag he should do the first Shitta brought above. One who holds Rabinu Tam for every halacha should not remove his shoes until then, unless he is in a earlier minyan for maariv in which case he removes them after ברכו. However if he just holds Rabainu Tam as a חומרא, or if he holds sixty minutes as a חומרא, than he should wait just 30 minutes after Shkia, say ברוך המבדיל and remove his shoes. (הגרש"ז אוריבעך )(These zmanim are for Eretz Yisroel, for chutz la'aretz check with your Rav).
Havdalah
One does not make havdalah after Shabbos rather he waits until after Tisha Ba'av. We say אתה חוננתנו in maariv. If one forgot he does not repeat שמונה עשרה. One who did not say אתה חוננתנו and did not say ברוך המבדיל and went and ate by mistake, than there is a question if he needs to repeat שמונה עשרה (הגרש"ז אוריבעך). We say בורא מאורי האש in shul before איכה. Ladies who did not hear בורא מאורי האש in shul may say it by themselves at home. However those who are מחמיר that ladies do not say this bracha should wait until the men come home to be מוציא her. In such a case he should have in mind not be יוציא in shul. Alternatively he can make the bracha at home before leaving to shul, but he must say ברוך המבדיל before lighting the fire. One can make בורא מאורי האש until the morning. (Rav Shlomo Zalman is מסופק if if it still dark after עלות השחר if the bracha may be said.) One who normally does not do מלאכה until after Havdalah on a כוס may do מלאכה this week after saying ברוך המבדיל and אתה חוננתנו. One who is sick or a child who will be eating on Tisha Ba'av One who will be eating on Tisha Ba'av such as one who must eat for health reasons or if he is making a Bris or Pidyon Haben, must make Havdalah over a כוס before eating. A child does not need to make havdalah before eating. (Rav Elyashiv suggests Havdala should be made.) One who makes havdalah does not say the pesukim before the bracha (הנה קל ישועתי) One does not make a bracha on בשמים, or מאורי האש unless it is still motzai Shabbos in which case one makes a bracha on the fire but not on the בשמים. If a lady is making Havdala on her own on motzai Shabbos, many hold that she does not make a bracha on the fire as it is a hefsek between the הגפן and ברכת הבדלה . Havdala should be made on חמר מדינה (such as beer) if one doesn’t have or can't tolerate beer, if there is a child available, one should make havdalah on grape juice and give it to a child to drink, (a child who has reached the age of chinuch but does not understand the concept of mourning.) If there are no children available one may make on grape juice and drink it. However no more than the minimum shiur of a rivi'is should be drunk. Some hold that a lady should not make havdala rather her husband should make it and she should say amein and drink it. In such a case the husband will not need to make havdala again after Tisha Ba'av
After Tisha Ba'av
This year as Tisha Ba'av is pushed off one may not eat meat or drink wine until the morning; however at that time one may eat right away. One may get a haircut, bath and do laundry immediately after Tisha Ba'av. In regards to music there are different minhagim. Those who wish to listen right away have on whom to rely. In the morning it is permissible right away.
(Adapted from a shiur given by R' Nissan Kaplan in Yeshiva)

Offline rots5

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 11:47:11 AM »
wow, gr8 e mail from the rav, he's amazing thanks so much

how do i get on his weekly e mails ?
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 11:55:54 AM »
how do i get on his weekly e mails ?
Sign up here to get weekly Kesher Shel Kayama emails from Rav Nissan Kaplan.

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2012, 12:01:27 PM »
Thanks!
siyag lachachma :-)

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2012, 03:57:24 PM »
Sign up here to get weekly Kesher Shel Kayama emails from Rav Nissan Kaplan.

thanks!
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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2012, 10:38:44 AM »
for the shabbos meal, we ate lots of salty foods, - cholent (salty) pickles, salads and dry salami (which was salty) and we said plenty of l'chaim on 40%... and wine.
then for shalosh suedos we had salads, with lots of onions in each and besides water, beer was served!
there are approx. 5 hours left to the fast here, and so far nothing out of the ordinary - feels like a regular fast day (besides the no shower part)

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2012, 10:56:17 AM »
for the shabbos meal, we ate lots of salty foods, - cholent (salty) pickles, salads and dry salami (which was salty) and we said plenty of l'chaim on 40%... and wine.
then for shalosh suedos we had salads, with lots of onions in each and besides water, beer was served!
there are approx. 5 hours left to the fast here, and so far nothing out of the ordinary - feels like a regular fast day (besides the no shower part)
I was staying at a cardiologist for shabbos and he said salty foods are good for before the fast, especially when in a hot climate. He gave an explanation about vascular levels or something don't really remember.
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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2012, 02:13:34 PM »
just finished mine here in the holy land, and i had fish, deli roll liver, chicken, shnitzel :-)

and now i had a panini and mac N cheese....

whad ya have?
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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2012, 04:25:44 PM »
I was staying at a cardiologist for shabbos and he said salty foods are good for before the fast, especially when in a hot climate. He gave an explanation about vascular levels or something don't really remember.
salty foods are good for your body b4 a fast. it absorbs the water and keeps u hydrated longer.. But u gotta make sure u drink enuf in order for it to be beneficial for you. and in need of ideas to make for after the fast- anyone??

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2012, 08:32:13 PM »
Getting ready....
Having a bunch of guests and serving:

Garlic Bread
French Onion Soup
Lasagna
Cheesy potatoes (Sliced potatoes baked with cream/cheese/onions/salt/pepper)
Ceasar Salad

Offline Q274

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2012, 08:34:49 PM »
Getting ready....
Having a bunch of guests and serving:

bagels
vegetable soup
Lasagna
cappelini salad
home made cinnamon buns


me too!!

Offline AsherO

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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2012, 10:08:29 PM »
Getting ready....
Having a bunch of guests and serving:

Garlic Bread
French Onion Soup
Lasagna
Cheesy potatoes (Sliced potatoes baked with cream/cheese/onions/salt/pepper)
Ceasar Salad

With a spread like that, expect a bunch of DDFer's at your door :P
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Re: Suggestions for Shalosh Seudot before the fast
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2012, 10:43:06 PM »
i ended up making mozzarella sticks, salmon, and salad. yum... not hungry anymore!